11YO DD has told us she's pansexual

[GarnishWithALemonTwist]

Not massively concerned about it, whether she is or she isn't, but just wondering if there's a book I can give her about being yourself, growing up, feelings and emotions, etc. She's be 12 in 3 weeks time.

Completely agree @Fallofrain. My parents laughing refer to the 3 LTRs I've had with women as a 'phase' now that I'm married to a man. All I can say is the 'phase' is alive and well in my 30s. I don't engage nowadays though because it's a waste of time. I'm still bisexual, I'm just monogamous right now (hopefully forever!) so as far as I'm concerned I'm DH-sexual

I'm also not a fan of those conflating bi and pan, I'm bi, I'm certainly not pan. I'm a supporter of trans rights but personally I am attracted firmly to men and women, not to the broad spectrum of gender.

OP, please don't do the 'that's nice dear' - as others have said it's patronising and deeply harmful if this turns out to be more than normal teenage exploration. I would explain that sexuality is fluid and that who we are attracted to can change lots over the course of our lifetimes (even later than teens/20s - look at the number of women on MN who post saying they're middle aged and married to a man but suddenly finding themselves attracted to women!). That irregardless of who she is attracted to, she needs to be mindful that she is still very young to be embarking on relationships. That she can be free to be attracted to whoever she likes, and you'll always support and love her. And that we're all just sort of figuring out life as we go, even grown ups, so she has all the time in the world

My eldest is 18 and this was not a thing when he was in years 7-8-9.

It was a thing for many girls though.

It’s a bit weird because it’s all very fashionable at the moment, they are hearing about sexualities before they have any genuine sexual attraction. It’s more like sitting under an LGBT sorting hat than actually feeling multiple sexual attractions.

Exactly that!

It was a thing for many girls though

Yes, it's funny how it's often girls who come out as pan sexual isnt it

Now I wonder why that could be....

A cautionary tale about letting your teens / pre-teens use tumblr / the internet without close supervision.

4thwavenow.com/2018/03/12/baptised-in-fire-a-relieved-desisters-story/

Although, it's not just tumblr these days. I think the kids have moved on to other platforms now, no idea what though.

If my 11 year old told me she was pansexual I'd be shitting myself she was actually lesbian in a homophobic atmosphere and heading for coming out as trans or non binary, then on to the self harm of breast binding, testosterone etc. Hopefully not, but something I'd be aware of.

Encourage real life activities she enjoys, get her doing stuff rather than naval gazing.

And, if it did turn out she was a lesbian then I'd be trying to make sure she knew about some amazing lesbian role models, to try to counteract the homophobia that pushes so many young lesbians down the trans route these days.

Honestly, this is just the current version of becoming goth or emo like we used to as young teens. Its kids expressing that they're having complicated and confusing feelings, don't feel represented by a rigid gender binary (as if anyone does!) and feel themselves to be deeper and more unique and more feeling than other people.

This times a million.

What Dollywilde says.

Mildly surprised at the posters claiming she is unlikely to be fancying someone at 11: in that case, young people must have changed a good deal since my day.

What she needs to know is that she is far too young to embark on a sexual relationship and that she should never allow herself to be pressurised into any kind of relationship that she doesn't want to. But that gender makes no difference to that.

As someone who has read a fair bit about the history of sexuality, it seems to me that the whole "phase" thing is just a circumspect way of saying "some sexualities are more acceptable than others, dear, don't allow yourself to consider the unacceptable ones unless there is absolutely no choice". Which in many ways was true for my generation- but not for my children's generation.

Some people are actually trans. I hate how they are constantly demonised on here. And even if your angle is that you’d be worried because of the high rates of self harm etc among trans then the problem is not the trans people. It’s everyone who makes their lives hard ie. the vast majority of mumsnetters.

Goths were never told they were exclusionary or phobic for not listening to take that.

There werent peope on you tube telling kids to contact them for free eye liner and a Metallica t shirt if parents didn't approve of your coal chamber CD.

Pan sexual requires belief in gender identity. And denying biology and the usual sexual attraction boundaries.

It's a hell of alot more worrying than whether or not they wont listen to boy bands.

monitor social media activity

That's good advice anyway - though she probably getting it from secondary either other students or even possibly lessons/assemblies.

DS yr 7 had the whole there more than two sexes lesson - he came home and ranted about that.

I can't suggest any books - though I'd be interested myself - but mine have shown interested in Greek Myths - Overly sarcastic productions is popular with them mix of myths and history.

They've seen things being more fluid in the past - god/goddess chasing male and female - explanation for different type of love Greek had and concluded on their own that things seem to be getting more ridged and labelled than in the past.

Plus history and science stuff is around at home - so they see different female role models and changing societies and actual science.

I wouldn't be dismissive or too interested if possible either.

Sounds like someone needs to step away from the internet. Keep the lines of communication open with her, OP. Sex is something we should talk about more with our kids.

Some people are actually trans

Have you read ant of the increasing number of stories from desisters and detransitioners? Did you read the article I linked.

Can you account for the 4000% rise in girls seeking treatment for being trans in the UK?

Can you explain how a teenager being being trans is so different to any other kind of body dysmorphia that we should encourage them to change their bodies rather then help them deal with their psychological issues?

It’s everyone who makes their lives hard ie. the vast majority of mumsnetters ODFOD. My concerns are expressed here as a parent, talking to other parents. Do you think I go around having a go at trans kids? Get a grip. FFS.

This film is excellent, btw, for anyone wanting to understand more about the concerns about teens and transition:

Bisexual has always meant seeing the person rather than the sex/gender

Since when? I am bi and for me it has always meant finding both sexes attractive, nothing to do with "seeing the person rather than the sex".

What Dollywilde said. If I were 11 or 12, I'd probably label myself as pan. And then in my early 30s, I'd probably revise that to bi, bit inclusive of trans and non binary people.

As things were, nothing really felt right so I said "I don't feel comfortable with labels" . But all that means is that other people got to choose my labels, which has become increasingly annoying.

Great post, @Dollywilde

Most people believe in gender identity and there is no need to deny biology to do so. MN isn't a good place to ask for advice about this kind of thing because some people are so religious about their point of view with regard to trans rights that it overrides the empathy they would otherwise feel to a child who might be struggling. When I was young there were lots of girls who came out as bi and had various crushes on girls and it did become a fashion that's not to say those girls weren't experiencing genuine confusion and some of them of course did turn out to be gay/bi.

Happyspud I have never made the life of a trans person harder, and I think you should not make this ridiculous unfounded allegation. The majority of mumsnetters (as you put it - I’m not sure if it’s a majority) have concerns about protecting the rights of women, that is not in the same universe as trying to drive trans people to self harm. I don’t think you should be allowed to post such garbage to be honest.

“Most people believe in gender identity”
Rofl. They really don’t. Most people can’t even define it in a way that makes sense.

Most people believe in gender identity and there is no need to deny biology to do so

Of course there is. If you say "You are a male but identify as a woman, but you're not female so not a woman" then that doesn't deny biology, but that's apparently transphobic.

The only way to not be transphobic is to deny bio reality by saying "You identify as a woman therefore you are a woman" (which denies bio reality because a woman can only be female, not male).

even if your angle is that you’d be worried because of the high rates of self harm etc among trans

I'm saying that medical transition is self harm, for many. It's taken the place of anorexia for teen girls in my day, and shows the same signs of social contagion.

My comment is she is very young to be even thinking of these things. I would carefully monitor her social media usage. Its trendy and all that so might mean nothing or it might mean she is on the start of a slippery slope of being influenced by others. Keep communication channels open and parent her warmly.

My 12 yr old and his friends spends their time building dens in the garden and whittling sticks and talking about Bushcraft god bless their innocence what is the world coming to at all where children are declaring their sexual preferences at 11/12 years of age

Most people believe in gender identity

Only people who believe gender stereotyping is real believe in gender identity.

DS yr 7 had the whole there more than two sexes lesson - he came home and ranted about that.

Fucking great.