Why don't men get a choice attempt 2

[zombee]

Previous thread deleted.
I am curious as to why men who have been lied to by women hoping to fall pregnant should be held responsible for the child (providing they did everything they could on their part to prevent pregnancy whilst enjoying a healthy sex life as a human with desires should be able to do).
I don't see why they don't get the choice to walk away and say they didn't want this, they did everything they could to stop it but they were lied to and so they weren't as protected as they thought.
Yes the child loses out on a father and possibly child maintenance depending on just how much the father walks away but the mother should be prepared to explain this when the child is old enough as it is her fault as she lied specifically to fall pregnant knowing the father didn't want this.
I don't think men should get a say in abortion for many reasons but in the same breath I don't think women should be able to "trap" men in this way when they know exactly how the man feels.
When both people use contraception such as the pill and a condom and still an accident happens then I believe maybe the man should be held slightly more accountable as there was no deception, just something went wrong in the universe that day and a child was conceived. That might not make sense as both the lied to man and the man who just got unlucky are in the same situation really but I guess the difference is the lied to man had less of a choice because he didn't know the full story even though he believed he did.
I also don't understand why a man pretending to use a condom is a rapist but a woman pretending to use contraception is just a horrible person who faces no real consequences.

I have had very bad experiences with men , but I sympathise with the OP's point of view.

You are free to educate men that sperm + egg may = baby. I am sure the education system didn't touch on this.

How does he prove he used a condom?

My child isn’t in charity clothes because I make sure she isn’t, not because of the pittance her father throws our way when it suits him.

@zombee as already requested can you give some recognized statistical evidence that shows that so many women are out there catching men out by deliberately tricking them into getting pregnant?

Seeing one or two stories on Mumsnet does not count.

I'm genuinely so sad if you really are a pregnant woman and this is your line of thinking.

Fuck me what chance do we have when other women like to spread this nonsense about other women?

So, basically, you admit that yours is a poorly thought-out proposal with the potential to cause harm to women if misguidedly actioned by government?

Whenever you engage in any form of heterosexual intercourse there is a risk of pregnancy, anyone who claims they were "tricked" is frankly too stupid to be having sex.

Condom failure when used correctly is pretty rare tbh.

I do have to dispute this. I've had a condom break.

@BelulahBlanca

There's nothing wrong with charity shop clothing. Economically sensible, environmentally sound.

@peanut2017 Agree totally. I wonder if men sit around on forums wondering how they can make our lives easier by giving us litigation to use against them?

@Regan There’s not at all, but a PP earlier used that as an example of the difference CSA payments can make. I guess my point was my child has what she has based off my finances and not contributions from her father.

My point is, op, that any man can claim what he likes... 'she lied to me/she was on the pill/I didn't realise that having sex would potentially result in a child' etc etc etc. So that's why I brought it up. HTH

@TeenTitans

Out of how many you've used in your life? Also, was it in date and used following the manufacturers instructions to the letter? Get a new, in date one out of its packet and actively try to break it and you'll see its pretty difficult to do.

Wanting men to take responsibility for the children they create is aggressively anti men? What now?

Women are not cum dumpsters. Men don't get to go splurging their sperm into any vagina because of their desires and walk away without any consequences.

Indeed. Look, OP, this isn't rocket science. Imagine you are a man (assuming you are not, because this is the internet, and we could all be anyone) you know that each time you have sex, contraception being a fallible art condoms break or come off, coils malfunction, people forget to take pills, or aren't aware of drug side effects acting against them, or get a stomach upset -- you are potentially creating a baby.

Do you
(a) do absolutely everything in your power to prevent an unwanted pregnancy

or

(b) do you assume it's the woman's problem and she's 'probably taking something', and what are the chances, anyway?, and get straight in there?

What would a normal, responsible human being do?

Maybe the man has to keep all his used condoms as proof. They could be put in evidence bags, sealed and signed by an independent witness.

Regan Not many actually, we only used it as a back up because I've recently given birth and can't take hormonal contraception. It was a brand new durex, we were both horrified when we discovered it had broken. As far as I can tell we did use it correctly, it's put us off condoms for life.

If you have sex, even with protection, you do it with the knowledge that there is always a chance of pregnancy. No contraception if 100% apart from abstinence. If you roll the dice then you have to accept the consequences if a pregnancy occurs. The pregnancy happens to the female so her choice is final as there is no middle ground. If men gave sex the have to accept a child is s possibility.

I do t get the issue with a man taking responsibility for using condoms. You can check them afterwards for spilts or leaks so you then know you’re at risk of a pregnancy. You could then discuss the morning after pill. You know, if people put efforts into their relationships as much as their carnal desires they wouldn’t be shagging people who would be trying to trick them etc would they? At the end of the day it’s hardly
Men who get the tough deal of failed contraception now is it?

There was a product recall issued for a batch of Durex not too long ago. You might have been caught out by one of them.

dont not do t

🙄

Use a condom. It’s not difficult

It is extremely well known that we live in a country where, should a woman get pregnant, it's entirely up to her if she wants to see the pregnancy through. With that in mind, if a man is so utterly desperate not to become a father, then there a few things he can consider:

1. He could abstain from having sex. I know the thought of men not getting their dicks wet is horrifying to some but it is a legitimate option in a bid to prevent a baby

1. He could - and again, don't be too shocked by this - get to know a woman before putting his penis in her 😱 so he could wait until he actually knows and trusts her, understand her values, and perhaps even discuss what she would do if she fell accidentally pregnant to get the lay on the land. Again, it's a bit of a mood killer, but if fatherhood is so off-putting then perhaps a good old fashioned conversation isn't a bad thing

1. Remember that sex isn't purely for pleasure, the whole and total biological purpose is to make a baby, and don't be surprised if that happens. Men do not have a right to risk free sex

And no, the above does not apply to women, because they have the added unenviable option of termination. They also have the risk of carrying a pregnancy through. They are in a different place when choosing a partner, and if you don't like it then consider that the alternative is men dictating what happens with women's bodies. And we don't want that do we?

But if so many people are convinced of all these untrustworthy women lurking about "trapping" men, then options 1 and 2 above are that u reasonable surely?

As an aside, those suggesting that men should be able to abscond from responsibility - how would that work on a practical level? Serious question? Would both parties need to sign a form before Dec to confirm that if it results in pregnancy he has nothing to do with it? Or does he get a chance when she's pregnant? To what stage of pregnancy? And what about for people like married couples who actually planned the baby - is it fair he then gets to change his mind? Or should married people be exempt? And what do you plan to do about the rise in child poverty as a result of this? And what about the child's rights - will they have a chance to find information about their father later in life? Like children of sperm donors do? Or is a man's right to run away from his responsibilities more important than a human being who wants to know their family?

stop women from being able to lie to get pregnant

You can't get pregnant by lying, you need a man to have unprotected sex with you. I don't think that happens without the man being aware of it.

@zombee the only way to prevent a pregnancy is to not have sex. HTH. Using condoms is not ever a sure fire way to prevent pregnancy, so a man would never prove he did as long as he was having sex.

It is extremely well known that we live in a country where, should a woman get pregnant, it's entirely up to her if she wants to see the pregnancy through

Since I live in a part of the UK where such an option does not exist, I wonder does the OP think that makes women here more likely to lie or less likely to lie? I'd love to be enlightened.