Why don't men get a choice attempt 2

[zombee]

Previous thread deleted.
I am curious as to why men who have been lied to by women hoping to fall pregnant should be held responsible for the child (providing they did everything they could on their part to prevent pregnancy whilst enjoying a healthy sex life as a human with desires should be able to do).
I don't see why they don't get the choice to walk away and say they didn't want this, they did everything they could to stop it but they were lied to and so they weren't as protected as they thought.
Yes the child loses out on a father and possibly child maintenance depending on just how much the father walks away but the mother should be prepared to explain this when the child is old enough as it is her fault as she lied specifically to fall pregnant knowing the father didn't want this.
I don't think men should get a say in abortion for many reasons but in the same breath I don't think women should be able to "trap" men in this way when they know exactly how the man feels.
When both people use contraception such as the pill and a condom and still an accident happens then I believe maybe the man should be held slightly more accountable as there was no deception, just something went wrong in the universe that day and a child was conceived. That might not make sense as both the lied to man and the man who just got unlucky are in the same situation really but I guess the difference is the lied to man had less of a choice because he didn't know the full story even though he believed he did.
I also don't understand why a man pretending to use a condom is a rapist but a woman pretending to use contraception is just a horrible person who faces no real consequences.

Please don't make it easier men to shirk their responsibility. I imagine a lot of young women are coerced into sex without a condom because their boyfriends "don't like the feel of them". Educate men to take responsibility for their fertility and deal with the consequences when pregnancy occurs.

What's happening with these posts tonight?

Women are not cum dumpsters. Men don't get to go splurging their sperm into any vagina because of their desires and walk away without any consequences. So tough. Even women who do decide to terminate a pregnancy, it's hardly an easy decision / process for them. It's not like they just sign a piece of paper and poof. Which is exactly what a "male abortion" equivalent would be. Termination can lead to infertility or other complications. It can literally have life changing effects or even be fatal.

Man: so you're telling me I can shag anyone and anything and all I have to do is say she lied and sign a piece of paper and there are no consequences. Sound! Bring on the shagging!

Smellslikemiddleagespirit

Won’t somebody please think of the poor menz

😂 ffs, nearly made me choke on my cuppa

WE can’t prove rape. How would you prove the woman lied and sabatgaed the man contraception? Because if he isn’t using any himself then as other have said, it’s still his responsibity

Can you show me some statistical evidence that shows a trend in women lying in order to get pregnant? Otherwise it's just 'he said / she said' bullshit

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3573668-Forced-Parenthood-AIBU?pg=1&order=

Isn’t this the “deleted” thread?

Women are not cum dumpsters. Men don't get to go splurging their sperm into any vagina because of their desires and walk away without any consequences

This !!!!!!!!!!

Why are you obsessed with the idea that some women lie? It's like the women lying about rape myth, yes of course there are one or two but it's extremely rare, yet used as a stick to undermine women in general.

And hey, use a condom. It is true a man only has the woman's word for it if she says she's on the pill, and the pill isn't 100 percent nor does it prevent STDs. I have come across men who would rather use a condom just to be safe.

Very weird thing to bring up, particularly as a pregnant woman (which I am btw, and this is really the last thing on my mind! )

@QueenBeex think you missed what I said slightly as you got the rage too quickly. I said if he used a condom but also believed the woman is on something but has been lied to and then a pregnancy happened because condoms only work 99% of the time if used correctly all the time and there wasn't the back up protection he'd thought then it isn't fair. Definitely don't think it's solely on the woman to provide protection.
@YouLikeTheBadOnesToo 2. One just never fell pregnant and the other one was sleeping with someone casually and tried lying for a while but then I guess he got curious and started watching her take the pill. Very lucky that a child wasn't born out of either situation obviously

PurpleDaisies the other was from a med student, but similar in tone.

Women definitely lie to get pregnant. If you choose to believe it doesn't happen that's fine but it does.
This I think is where it gets dangerous.
Some women lie to get pregnant. Of course some do. A very very small percentage of them but it’s certainly not unheard off (incl women having a ONS).
But as soon as your u start making generalities such as ‘women lie to get pregnant ’ then it’s opening the door to any excess.

Eg: a woman didn’t use the pill, she gets pregnant = she actually wanted to get pregnant even if she said she didn’t.
A woman takes the pill but still gets pregnant = she said she was but actually wasn’t OR she messed up with the pill in purpose or forgot t it in purpose because she wanted to get pregnant.
Woman got pregnant whilst married = man who didn’t dare say NO and thought they do no other choice but to accept that to save their relationship aka was coerced/manipulated and therefore not responsible for that child. Because you see of women lie to get pg, the surely they will also coerce/manipulate to get what they want etc...

Etc etc...

For getting of course that a man always have a choice too and will always have a 50/50 responsibility for what has happened as well as the result.

Two people having sex should each be taking responsibility for their own contraception and sexual health. If a man is having sex with a new partner or a partner they are not in a long term, exclusive relationship with then he should be using condoms as a matter of course to protect both parties from STDs.

If a man didn't wear a condom, trusting that the woman he is having sex with is on the pill, a d she gets pregnant then more fool him. He had the option of protecting himself and didn't, all choices of what happens with that pregnancy are out of his hands from the point of ejaculation onwards.

Maintenance should not be optional. No matter what the circumstances of conception were, no matter what anyone thinks of either parent or the choices made, that money is for the benefit of the child and no child should be punished for the perceived mistakes of it's parents.

@PurpleDaisies my deleted thread was called "why don't men get a choice". Unfortunately I made reference to both that enforced parenthood thread and another one and so broke Mumsnet rules and it got pulled. Those threads sparked my curiosity though as I couldn't understand some of the replies on there, hence making my own.

zombee does it mean that women like myself who can’t take the contraceptive pill or have a coil will always be fully responsible for the pregnancy because they can’t physically use contraception then??? Even in a relationship?
After all, if they really didn’t want a pg, they wouldn’t have had sex I suppose

Off the point but I find your username a bit sad OP.

Sorry but if you have a casual relationship you don’t know the woman so why are you trusting a stranger with your health in the first place. There are a lot of repercussions from unprotected sex- STIs/ STDs, just because someone SAYS something doesn’t make it true.

you're correct I did 'get the rage, mainly based on this abosule bullshit comment that you said

also don't understand why a man pretending to use a condom is a rapist

what planet are you on?????

Doom I think what started this whole thing was about the case whee a woman says NO to conforms (citing an allergy) so the man feels he doesn’t have the option of the condom and has to rely on the woman using contraception.

Absolute ^

Men need to take responsibility for themselves.
The last choice they get to make wrt an unwanted pregnancy is if they wear a condom or not.

If you dont want to be a father, wear a condom or dont have sex.

What dont you understand about this OP?

Are you taking the piss?

"Sex just doesn't feel the same with condoms"
"I'll pull out I promise"

Sure, it's just the women lying to the men.
Women literally cannot win: some women get pregnant accidentally and plan to abort while men whine "she's aborting my baby, how could she?", other women get pregnant accidentally, keep it and then get "she tricked me, I'm not having anything to do with this baby". If you're mature enough to have sex, you should be mature enough to live with the consequences of it and the decisions that women make regarding their own bodies.

I think the whole issue is easier to understand if you consider the baby to be human being, rather than as some sort of consumer choice on the part of the mother.

Perhaps try imagining rhe baby as an actual person and see if that helps.

The same point about men needing to use condoms is being brought up. I've acknowledged this as being a must otherwise he hasn't actually tried to prevent a pregnancy and therefore, whilst he shouldn't have been lied to, really is a dimwit who needs "sperm equals baby" pointing out to him.
Maybe the reason I'm so curious is because as a pregnant woman I can't understand actively trying to trap someone into it. I love the fact I'm about to become a mother and I love watching my partner talk to the baby and watching him feel her kick etc but it's also so expensive, and I've had so many issues during this pregnancy that I 1) don't understand a woman lying to a man to get pregnant and 2) don't think a man should be deceived to then become trapped into an expensive and lifelong commitment that he had no desire for and had tried to prevent through use of condom.

I think what started this whole thing was about the case whee a woman says NO to conforms (citing an allergy) so the man feels he doesn’t have the option of the condom and has to rely on the woman using contraception.

Then he should either use condoms that she isn't allergic to - there are many latex-free and hypoallergenic options out there - or he should abstain from having sex with her or if he can't survive without putting his dick into risky situations then he should accept that pregnancy (and a raging dose of Clap) may occur.

@UrsulaPandress why?