Why don't men get a choice attempt 2

[zombee]

Previous thread deleted.
I am curious as to why men who have been lied to by women hoping to fall pregnant should be held responsible for the child (providing they did everything they could on their part to prevent pregnancy whilst enjoying a healthy sex life as a human with desires should be able to do).
I don't see why they don't get the choice to walk away and say they didn't want this, they did everything they could to stop it but they were lied to and so they weren't as protected as they thought.
Yes the child loses out on a father and possibly child maintenance depending on just how much the father walks away but the mother should be prepared to explain this when the child is old enough as it is her fault as she lied specifically to fall pregnant knowing the father didn't want this.
I don't think men should get a say in abortion for many reasons but in the same breath I don't think women should be able to "trap" men in this way when they know exactly how the man feels.
When both people use contraception such as the pill and a condom and still an accident happens then I believe maybe the man should be held slightly more accountable as there was no deception, just something went wrong in the universe that day and a child was conceived. That might not make sense as both the lied to man and the man who just got unlucky are in the same situation really but I guess the difference is the lied to man had less of a choice because he didn't know the full story even though he believed he did.
I also don't understand why a man pretending to use a condom is a rapist but a woman pretending to use contraception is just a horrible person who faces no real consequences.

I guess that's where the issue is as well @YouLikeTheBadOnesToo because unless she admits it written down how would it ever be proveable.
I absolutely recognise there's an innocent child in all this but I don't see how it could be blamed on someone who was lied to and used. I think if the mother has purposely tricked a man into getting her pregnant (yes sperm equals babies but when there's supposed to be barriers in the way and other things then the sperm shouldn't be able to get to the egg to equal a baby) then she needs to suck it up and deal with it when it goes tits up for her

My entire life savings tells me this isn’t a pregnant woman

I personally think that men should also be allowed to abort in a sense- so obviously not have say on the woman’s body but be allowed to veto parenting at all so no child maintenance, no contact, no parental responsibility.

we live in age where we are moving towards gender equality and for me, like you, that is arguably a pretty solid system to implement.

That way women can do what they like with their bodies and have their child but be fully aware that the father wants 0 parts.

If there was a male pill - a form of contraception which was invisible - and you did not want to become pregnant, would you trust it? Of course not. You wouldn’t leave your fate in someone else’s hands unless having that happen was something you could live with. Unfortunately men are socialised to believe women should be responsible for everything so think a woman on the pill is as much contraception as they need. Condoms are widely available.

Because it’s not the child’s fault and it’s the child that suffers!!!

That’s the answer now please stop these threads it’s the third one now!

I actually can’t have children, been trying for years have had unsuccessful treatment and seeing ignorant posts like this boils my blood.

I am not against abortion either as it’s a choice but if a child is coming into this world, it deserves all the rights of one coming into a loving relationship as well as a broken one. That’s money and contact that’s right for their care.

DON’T punish a child for a parents selfish action!!!

Poor men being ruled by their carnal desires.

Surely this is a pointless question. If a woman had trapped a man on purpose with her 'disgusting plan', she'd hardly be likely to admit she'd done it on purpose, so how on earth would the man be able to prove it?
In any case, nobody's forcing men to go around having sex with women. If they do, they need to know it could end in pregnancy for which they are 50% responsible.

lovinglife that will not work and is not equality. Men cannot walk away from what they have made. Tough if they don't want it. Why is biological reality something we have to suck up, but men get a free pass?

I understand what your trying to say. Many of times a man just believes that the woman is taking or on contraception, explains that he doesn't want children and a woman still continues to purposely try to get pregnant. It happens a lot and I've heard this many of times. Unsure what all the rude comments to you are for yes men should take more responsibility at ensuring there is no chance of pregnancy by using condoms etc but many don't and just believe a woman.

Men need to control their sperm. Then they would not be caught eh?

Simples.

Because how do you determine that adequately and legally? If you could do it on some bloke's say so, you'd get a fuck load of men just going "oh, she said she was on the pill, you can't take my money" and the CSA would go "fair enuff mate" and the men would go "Excellent" and never have to contribute to a human they'd chosen to risk making when they had sex. Who the hell would ever take responsibility? Women, that's who. They'd raise the babies or they'd terminate the pregnancies but they would ultimately have to take responsibility for something that was jointly done. And then they'd have all the consequences of that decision, while some man walks off free and clear. So the line is drawn at "you make the baby, you at least financially support the baby". If a man takes responsibility for his own sperm, the unwanted pregnancy risk is dramatically reduced, regardless of a woman's contraceptive method. You still end up unlucky, you chalk it up to life being life and you crack on and take responsibility for whatever the woman now decides happens. Because once she's pregnant it's not up to anyone but her, and some men hate that because they're just not used to having huge important decisions be taken entirely out of their hands. But that's the way it is.

Fucks sake, they're out in force tonight.

@CrashOverride I've been posting under this username for a while now, and others. If you advance search me you should find threads where I've posted because I'm worried about the pregnancy and where I've posted on the ante natal July 2019 thread.
Women definitely lie to get pregnant. If you choose to believe it doesn't happen that's fine but it does.

Sign a contract pre shag, condoms, vasectomy, abstinence. Only shag in serious relationships when ready for child. I wonder how many men would be waving the "she trapped me by lying and waving her vagina at me", card if they thought they could get away with it. A woman who does this is dispicable, but does she ever really get off Scott free? Or does she end up financially screwed raising a baby on her own. She certainly doesn't get the love and respect in a mutually fulfilling relationship she was after.

I'm actually a pregnant woman myself

Of course you are.

Don't get me wrong, I'm against the OP's viewpoint. But are you seriously suggesting that an 18 year old university student should get the Male pill(virtually unheard of), have a vasectomy or not have sex at all in case they have sex with a woman who lies to them about contraception?

Well, yes. If they’re that terrified about being a father, they are the only options far as I can see.

Won't somebody think of the menz. Oh no, wait, that's not it is it? It's supposed to be Won't somebody think of the children.

Nealry got myself in a tizz there.

Happens all the time, women lying to get pregnant. Men never lie about anything because they want a shag and don't give a shit about consequences, it's always women's fault. Glad we've got that cleared up.

I thought people love doing advanced searches when they suspect a troll. If you search me you'll find I've posted under this username since the beginning of April on various topics but yep definitely lying 🤥 😂
Yes think of the children - stop women from being able to lie to get pregnant and stop forcing anyone who doesn't want to be a parent from becoming one!

I was taught by my parents that every time I had sex I could potentially have a child with that person. So I didn’t have sex until I met a really bloody nice man who I wouldn’t have minded having kids with. I also waited until I knew him very well before having sex with him.

It’s dead easy. If you don’t want a baby then do not have sex.

A man does have a choice, have the snip, use condoms, don't have sex, dont rely on just the pill or anything else when they aren't 100%. If you can't trust the woman enough to know if they are really on the pill then don't have sex with them. Definitely don't have sex without a condom regardless because you'll spread sti's

woman carry the child inside them, woman have to give up drinking for the pregnancy and have to be careful about many other things etc men don't. Woman have to feel the child grow and move inside them, men don't

if a man and a woman both consent to sex, then they should both be responsible for both using protection

you're a complete idiot for saying men pretending to use a condom get told it's rape. No rape is when the consent didn't happen. A man and woman both consenting to sex then the man not wanting his child isn't rape, that's being irresponsible and a deadbeat

POINT IS IF YOU DONT KNOW OR TRUST THE FEMALE THEN YOU REALISTICALLY SHOULDNT TAKE HER WORD WHEN SHE TELLS YOU SHES GOT THE COIL OR ANYTHING ELSE, YOU SHOULD ALWAYS WEAR A CONDOM REGARDLESS SO YOU DONT SPREAD OR CATCH ANYTHING. IF BOTH MALE AND FEMALE CONSENT TO HAVING SEX THEN THEY BOTH NEED TO USE PROTECTION. BOTH ARE ADULTS AND BOTH ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING SURE THEYRE BOTH USING PROTECTION FROM UNWANTED PREGNANCY ANR STI'S

AND if an unwanted pregnancy does happen and the woman keeps the child then the MAN NEEDS TO PAY FOR HIS CHILD. THE MOTHER IS STEPPING UP AND CARING FOR THE CHILD AT LEAST DO THE EASY PART AND PAY FOR YOUR CHILD

Won’t somebody please think of the poor menz? 😞

I think the lying isn’t acceptable and should be punished in one way or the other.
However, the CHILD hasn’t chosen to be there or lied. And the people who are responsible for them are BOTH the mother and the father.

So yes it creates a situation where a man ends up responsible for a child they don’t want. And yes it’s crap because it’s expensive and life changing.
But I dint think that, in the interest of the child, the father should be allowed to not be involved.
I also think that, if this was becoming ‘the norm’ then it would be very easy for men to then say it’s normal to not pay CM ‘because they wanted a child in the first place but felt they had no choice’ before nit being involved or paying ever. The risk of répercutions for ALL the children are too high imo.

zombee how many women do you actually know who’ve lied to get pregnant? And I mean know without doubt, not just bitchy gossip?

And again how do you propose we prove this? How do we stop men from using it to avoid having to face up to their responsibilities?

I became a pregnant uni student, my (now ex)bf who I had been with for 2 years at the time and I made the choice to not use latex-free condoms the time I fell pregnant as we had run out. I was on the pill, I then had a serious sickness bug that lasted 5 days. I found out I was pregnant and he initially wanted nothing to do with the baby, I should have an abortion, I had ruined his life, I had tricked him etc etc.

We broke up shortly after finding out I was pregnant. However, after she was born he decided he was interested and completely changed his mind. We had a couple of shaky years when she was a baby sorting out contact and involving the courts etc but now it is 10 years on and he is a very good dad to DD and he contributes his small amount via the CSA, or whatever it is called now. But most importantly DD has a good, positive relationship with both him and his family.

Had he been able to completely walk away at the point of conception both he and DD would have missed out on what they both have now which would be a massive shame for both of them.