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Original poster

Why don't men get a choice attempt 2

187 replies

zombee · 30/04/2019 20:10

Previous thread deleted.
I am curious as to why men who have been lied to by women hoping to fall pregnant should be held responsible for the child (providing they did everything they could on their part to prevent pregnancy whilst enjoying a healthy sex life as a human with desires should be able to do).
I don't see why they don't get the choice to walk away and say they didn't want this, they did everything they could to stop it but they were lied to and so they weren't as protected as they thought.
Yes the child loses out on a father and possibly child maintenance depending on just how much the father walks away but the mother should be prepared to explain this when the child is old enough as it is her fault as she lied specifically to fall pregnant knowing the father didn't want this.
I don't think men should get a say in abortion for many reasons but in the same breath I don't think women should be able to "trap" men in this way when they know exactly how the man feels.
When both people use contraception such as the pill and a condom and still an accident happens then I believe maybe the man should be held slightly more accountable as there was no deception, just something went wrong in the universe that day and a child was conceived. That might not make sense as both the lied to man and the man who just got unlucky are in the same situation really but I guess the difference is the lied to man had less of a choice because he didn't know the full story even though he believed he did.
I also don't understand why a man pretending to use a condom is a rapist but a woman pretending to use contraception is just a horrible person who faces no real consequences.

OP posts:
OurChristmasMiracle · 30/04/2019 21:12

But the only way a man could try to prevent a pregnancy is through condoms surely ? That’s the only way he has to control that he doesn’t get her pregnant.

Other than that he is just assuming she is telling the truth, because IF a woman wanted to lie to get pregnant she’s hardly going to say I desperately want a baby but I’m on the pill is she?

MIdgebabe · 30/04/2019 21:12

DOnt think the law works like that. If there is something you are responsible for, you can’t escape responsibility by saying that you took someone else’s word that it was ok. Your dick, your sperm, your baby, your responsibilities

TeenTitans · 30/04/2019 21:13

Of course maintenance money would help the child and could mean the difference between charity shop clothes or brand new clothes and it's shit for the child. But the mother should have thought about that before lying to get pregnant

Punishing the child for the mother's actions?

MIdgebabe · 30/04/2019 21:13

MEN can avoid pregnancy . Not if they insist on penetrative sex with a fertile female though

VampireSlayer19 · 30/04/2019 21:15

On a day rape victims are being told to hand over their phones so texts can be scrutinised to make it easier for men to find a way to say they consented, now a woman have to prove they didn’t ‘trap’ a guy into pregnancy. It really is a sad world we are building for ourselves!

pallisers · 30/04/2019 21:15

he should pay for the child because it is ACTUAL child - a real human being related to him who was born because of his actions (even if he was lied to yada yada yada) - actions that everyone knows carry a risk of pregnancy. It isn't like he went out for an ice cream and the girl behind the counter lied to him about the flavours and she got pregnant. no matter what the discussion about contraception, there was an inbetween bit where he put his penis into her vagina and ejaculated without a condom.

If men could walk away from their children like this, should they not be shunned? treated as despicable? Would you be friends with a man who said "well not my problem she told me she was on the pill. I don't care what my kid is eating or wearing or how happy he is. I don't even want to meet him". Like seriously is that your attitude? how disgusting you are.

PortiaCastis · 30/04/2019 21:15

If someone can't read OP they won't be able to read your SHOUTY CAPS will they now

YouLikeTheBadOnesToo · 30/04/2019 21:16

zombee I just don’t understand how you’d ever get that proof?
My body can’t handle hormonal contraceptives, discovered it in my very early 20s. In the early months of my relationship with she I was on the pill. I remember texting him and asking if he’d pick up my prescription for me. There was no texts when I decided to come off it. Would it have been my word against his? How would I ever have been able to prove that he knew I’d stopped taking it?

QueenBeex · 30/04/2019 21:16

PortiaCastis Made me giggle Blush

Shoxfordian · 30/04/2019 21:16

Poor men, I feel so sorry for them Hmm

Your dick, your sperm equals your baby and therefore your responsibility. Totally agree with MIdgebabe

MIdgebabe · 30/04/2019 21:16

QUICk poll, since this is an anonymous forum,

anyone here ever lied in an attempt to get pregnant agaisnt a men’s wishes?

Anyone here ever got pregnant despite taking precautions?

Anyone here ever had a man try to avoid paying for/raising their child?

VampireSlayer19 · 30/04/2019 21:16

@OurChristmasMiracle or don’t have sex until ready that the act may produce a baby!

Biancadelrioisback · 30/04/2019 21:18

What counts as 'proof'? A text message? A letter? Medical records? How about we subject women to even more medical testing to see if we can find traces of the pill in her system? Interogate all her friends and family to see if any of them drop her in it? Anything to get out of THE SODDING CONSEQUENCES OF HAVING SEX.

sue51 · 30/04/2019 21:19

Midgebabe I got pregnant whilst using a coil over 30 years ago.

Original poster
zombee · 30/04/2019 21:20

@UrsulaPandress I hadn't heard of that user when I chose this username, and I apologise if anyone has confused the two of us.
I've said if there's written proof ie she's confronted over text messaging and admits it. I don't think it should get to court if there isn't this proof as it would of course be hugely damaging to the women who were just unfortunate and now having to fight a man lying to get out of being responsible.
Yes women are at a greater risk from side effects of pregnancy and having a child than a man who just got someone pregnant. Mainly because the man doesn't get pregnant so doesn't get the hormonal changes, doesn't go through what can be traumatising labours, and all of that. I understand that. But nobody seems to understand what I'm trying to say, if a women chooses to take on that risk by lying that can't be held against the man.
Abstinence is the only surefire way to get pregnant, I know that. But that works both ways. I've refused to have sex before because a guy wouldn't wear a condom and I'd only just started getting the injections so wasn't sure if it was safe. I took responsibility. If a man does the same thing and wears a condom knowing it should be safe but there's a chance it's not so asks if she's taking something and she says yes so the chances of getting pregnant are even lower why should he then be held responsible when it comes to light it's a lie.
I suppose a smart woman wouldn't admit to lying, but then I also think a smart woman might have more sense than to lie about taking contraception to get pregnant.

OP posts:
YouLikeTheBadOnesToo · 30/04/2019 21:21

On a day rape victims are being told to hand over their phones so texts can be scrutinised to make it easier for men to find a way to say they consented, now a woman have to prove they didn’t ‘trap’ a guy into pregnancy. It really is a sad world we are building for ourselves!

I don’t think this point can be made strongly enough. Well done VampireSlayer19

justdog · 30/04/2019 21:24

There are no words for this thread. Just. No. Words.

QueenBeex · 30/04/2019 21:24

he should pay for the child because it is ACTUAL child - a real human being related to him who was born because of his actions (even if he was lied to yada yada yada) - actions that everyone knows carry a risk of pregnancy. It isn't like he went out for an ice cream and the girl behind the counter lied to him about the flavours and she got pregnant. no matter what the discussion about contraception, there was an inbetween bit where he put his penis into her vagina and ejaculated without a condom

^^^^^^^

Sally2791 · 30/04/2019 21:24

Gosh. I have to say this sounds aggressively anti male. There are women out there who trap men into fathering children, as there are men who want women barefoot and pregnant, chained to the kitchen sink.
I have had very bad experiences with men , but I sympathise with the OP's point of view.

Biancadelrioisback · 30/04/2019 21:25

Happy to be proven wrong here but OP, can you please provide evidence of a time a woman lied about contraception to trick a man into unprotected sex in order for her to have a child? I'm just curious to see what this "proof" would look like

ReganSomerset · 30/04/2019 21:27

Condom failure when used correctly is pretty rare tbh. And the male has control of its usage. So you'd have a law put in that requires:

  • a condom to have been used correctly but failed
  • an assurance that another type of birth control was used
  • a written confession by the woman that she lied about using said birth control
  • a note in the law that says that, in the absence of such a written confession, no case can be brought

It's a bit of a tall order, and I still have questions:

  • How are you going to make sure the woman wasn't threatened or coerced into making the confession?
  • being as legal cases often take years to come to court and resolve, what happens in the interim?
justdog · 30/04/2019 21:27

Also, what about women who are in a committed relationship, married/engaged/what have you... then the man of the hour decides last minute (after the stable doors have closed, so to speak) that he is 'not ready/doesn't want to lose his freedom/is a complete and utter twunt. Then what do you think should happen? If a woman gets pregnant with a partner who was a willing party, then changes his mind??? What then?

Original poster
zombee · 30/04/2019 21:29

@justdog he's a willing party to make the child so he should be held responsible. He didn't try to prevent a pregnancy. He wasn't lied to. He just got cold feet or realised how serious having a child is and wanted to run away. Totally different scenario so not sure why you'd bring it up

OP posts:
UrsulaPandress · 30/04/2019 21:30

Trust me. No one would confuse you.

Original poster
zombee · 30/04/2019 21:31

@ReganSomerset I'm not a lawyer. I don't pretend to know all the answers. My viewpoint is very simply if a man tried to prevent a pregnancy, believed the woman was doing the same but wasn't, and has proof that the woman was deceptive then I don't think he should be responsible. I'm sure if a law was put in place, which I fully expect never to happen, then scenarios such as being forced into a false confession and any other possibilities would be thought of.

OP posts:
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