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Original poster

Why don't men get a choice attempt 2

187 replies

zombee · 30/04/2019 20:10

Previous thread deleted.
I am curious as to why men who have been lied to by women hoping to fall pregnant should be held responsible for the child (providing they did everything they could on their part to prevent pregnancy whilst enjoying a healthy sex life as a human with desires should be able to do).
I don't see why they don't get the choice to walk away and say they didn't want this, they did everything they could to stop it but they were lied to and so they weren't as protected as they thought.
Yes the child loses out on a father and possibly child maintenance depending on just how much the father walks away but the mother should be prepared to explain this when the child is old enough as it is her fault as she lied specifically to fall pregnant knowing the father didn't want this.
I don't think men should get a say in abortion for many reasons but in the same breath I don't think women should be able to "trap" men in this way when they know exactly how the man feels.
When both people use contraception such as the pill and a condom and still an accident happens then I believe maybe the man should be held slightly more accountable as there was no deception, just something went wrong in the universe that day and a child was conceived. That might not make sense as both the lied to man and the man who just got unlucky are in the same situation really but I guess the difference is the lied to man had less of a choice because he didn't know the full story even though he believed he did.
I also don't understand why a man pretending to use a condom is a rapist but a woman pretending to use contraception is just a horrible person who faces no real consequences.

OP posts:
isabellerossignol · 30/04/2019 20:56

WE can’t prove rape. How would you prove the woman lied and sabatgaed the man contraception? Because if he isn’t using any himself then as other have said, it’s still his responsibity

Oh, oh, oh, I know the answer to this one! It would be because the man said so. Just like when the man says that the woman agreed to being strangled during sex everyone is meant to say 'oh, of course she did. Poor you, it must be very traumatic for you to find yourself in court when you were just acting out your mutual desires'.

QueenBeex · 30/04/2019 20:58

"I have never never never seen an op by a woman on MN just complaining that she was pregnant and thought it was terribly unfair despite not using any contraception."

Original poster
zombee · 30/04/2019 20:58

@QueenBeex full quote says why a man pretending to use a condom is a rapist but a woman pretending to use contraception is just horrible. Don't part quote. I've been sexually assaulted. I'm still getting over it three years on. I understand how bad rape is. Don't be such a fucking dickhead

OP posts:
ReganSomerset · 30/04/2019 20:59

See, this, in part, is why we will never have equality. Why do some women insist on villifying and judging other women? We don't need men to tear women down- we happily do it ourselves.

MadAboutWands · 30/04/2019 20:59

There are many many reasons for a woman to trick a man.

  • being single and needing a sperm donor
  • being convinced a baby will solve all the problems/will make them happy/is the missing puzzle piece
  • thinking that being pregnant will convince the man to stay in that relationship (my aunt was convicted it would work with her cheating ex....)
Etc etc....

But it does NOT mean that all or even most women would do that!!

octonoughtcake3 · 30/04/2019 20:59

stop women from being able to lie to get pregnant please explain to me how you will make this happen?

QueenBeex · 30/04/2019 21:00

You're the 'fucking dickhead' you idiot 😂😂😂😂

TeenTitans · 30/04/2019 21:00

How is it fair on the child to be financially disadvantaged?

Original poster
zombee · 30/04/2019 21:01

@ReganSomerset I judge the women who lie and then bring a not totally wanted child into the world. I don't judge women who fall pregnant through an accident with contraception or any of that. I don't judge women who abort or who have five kids to different dads as long as she didn't lie to get any of the kids.

OP posts:
DoomOnTheBroom · 30/04/2019 21:02

I 1) don't understand a woman lying to a man to get pregnant and 2) don't think a man should be deceived to then become trapped into an expensive and lifelong commitment that he had no desire for and had tried to prevent through use of condom.

Even with a condom he's accepting that they have a failure rate and pregnancy may occur. Sex sometimes results in pregnancy, contraception lowers this risk but does not remove it entirely.

If someone has been genuinely tricked by one of these condom sabotaging harlots (Hmm) then tough shit. Is it fair? Depends which particular side of the child's parentage you're on but the child isn't to blame so while the father may feel it's unfair it would a damn sight more unfair to disadvantage the child for something that isn't their fault.

YouLikeTheBadOnesToo · 30/04/2019 21:02

zombee now how many women do you know who struggle to get child support/ any help off their childrens’ Dads’? There was four at my old place of work alone. I can’t imagine giving these men the power to just be able to say ‘she lied’ and then walk away.

Original poster
zombee · 30/04/2019 21:03

@octonoughtcake3 it isn't possible. Hence why if there's proof a woman lied I think the man should be able to walk away. DISCLAIMER FOR THE PEOPLE WHO CANT READ if there is no proof the man obviously can't just say to a judge she lied and get away with it as otherwise loads would be doing it. This only applies to the men who can prove he tried to prevent the pregnancy but was deceived and therefore shouldn't be held responsible.

OP posts:
Biancadelrioisback · 30/04/2019 21:05

OP, when you figure out how to prove that someone lied about contraception, then we should revisit this. In the meantime, fuck off.

QueenBeex · 30/04/2019 21:06

DISCLAIMER FOR THE PEOPLE WHO CANT READ

^

well that's abit fucking useless isn't it, WRITING A DISCLAIMER FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T READ

"fucking dickhead" 😂😂😂😂

pallisers · 30/04/2019 21:07

Yes think of the children - stop women from being able to lie to get pregnant and stop forcing anyone who doesn't want to be a parent from becoming one!

Maybe it should be a criminal offence for women "to lie to get pregnant"? That'll stop them. Men can just swear out an affidavit about how she told him she was on the pill didn't she.

I do hope that baby you are not pregnant with isn't a boy - although you raising a girl might be almost worse.

octonoughtcake3 · 30/04/2019 21:07

I will repeat my earlier comment and the comment of other. It’s not amount the parents it’s about the child.

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 30/04/2019 21:08

DISCLAIMER FOR THE PEOPLE WHO CANT READ

I haven't noticed you answering any of the questions you've been asked. You're just here to insult people aren't you op. Specifically to insult women. I'm reporting this thread now as you're not acting in good faith.

TeenTitans · 30/04/2019 21:08

How will you ever prove a woman lied?

KateyKube · 30/04/2019 21:09

I actually agree that men should have the choice to not become a parent. The woman has the choice to abort. The man should have a similar choice to irreversibly relinquish all legal rights, contact and liability before the child is born.

UrsulaPandress · 30/04/2019 21:09

Zombie was a much loved poster and your username just grated with me. Probably because you are talking absolute shite.

Disfordarkchocolate · 30/04/2019 21:09

The reality is that every time you have sex there is the risk of pregnancy. The risk is lowered by contraception but only removed if you abstain. Based on this fact if you want to have sex then each individual needs to use contraception, if you don't want your female partner to get pregnant you need to prevent that by taking responsibly for your own actions. Most people at some point disregard these simple facts or underestimate the risk for one reason or another but the reality doesn't change.

Namenic · 30/04/2019 21:10

Biologically the risks of pregnancy are very asymmetrical - ie the risk of damage to health/mental health/standard of living is much greater in pregnant women than in men who become ‘unwilling’ fathers (because they were willing to have the sex but not baby).

Therefore the consequences of having a child without consent should be much greater on a man who exposes a woman to such a risk than the other way round. I can see that there is a case for treating men who were genuinely lied to and took extra precautions differently, but the cost of administering such a system is way too high for our underfunded justice system.

pallisers · 30/04/2019 21:10

This only applies to the men who can prove he tried to prevent the pregnancy but was deceived and therefore shouldn't be held responsible.

Ah the old she said/he said performance in courts (because otherwise how on earth would you prove anything). That works so well in rape cases I can see why you'd want to expand it.

Original poster
zombee · 30/04/2019 21:10

@YouLikeTheBadOnesToo plenty. Hence why I don't believe a man should be believed without proof.
I just don't see how if it can be proven he tried to prevent the pregnancy but she deceived him he can still be forced into paying for the child and why lots of MNers believe he should have a relationship with the child.
Of course maintenance money would help the child and could mean the difference between charity shop clothes or brand new clothes and it's shit for the child. But the mother should have thought about that before lying to get pregnant. And if she's so stupid and such a bitch to not think about it or to not care about those consequences I feel so sorry for the child. But it still isn't the fathers fault if he tried actively to not get her pregnant and believed she was doing the same.

OP posts:
ReganSomerset · 30/04/2019 21:11

We have enough of our own battles to fight, don't you think? Let the men decide if this is something they want to fight for and then fight for it if they choose. We don't need to be campaigning for them to have more power over us. A pregnant woman doesn't need to be fighting in court to prove that she did, in fact, take her pill.

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