feel awful, I look at my 17 year old and feel hate.

[Dramaqueen2019]

I feel like an absolute failure as a parent. I shouldn’t feel this way about my son, I look at him and just feel rage and it shouldn’t be this way. I feel so sad about it. I really do. I wish I knew how to change things.
I have 2 other children who I feel only love for, but with DS1 I just feel anger, he’s selfish, lazy and downright nasty at times. He’s making my younger Children’s life’s hell. He doesn’t respect our home, he makes an absolute mess and won’t clear it up. He’s been chucked out of college due to non attendance. He works so there’s that, but it’s hell to live with him, his attitude is disgusting. I dislike him, his views are horrible, I can’t even have a conversation with him because of his racist, sexist, homophobic views. He refuses to pay rent. He won’t even clean up his own room. I feel like giving up, been sat here crying for the last hour as I just don’t know what to do anymore. I’m at the point where I would be happy for him to leave.

starboysmum no one has mentioned psychosis and I’m not sure it’s that. But I have been sat here all evening after doing some research believeing he may be a psychopath. Which is a horrible thing to think I know.

starboysmum my dad was actually sectioned many years ago (he’s dead now) and thinking about it I see similarities with my son. My dad seemed perfectly sane apart from his interest in conspiracies, he had a heart attack, which seemed to trigger something in him, and he just changed. He got sectioned after my mum found a notebook in his room where he had plannned to murder people on the street for some reason. Can’t remember the exact details as I was only 15. Afterwards he laughed about it saying how weird he was back then and said thank god for my crazy pills. No idea what those pills where though or what was actually wrong with him at the time. He did joke saying the voices told me to do it. Whether that was him joking about or or if it was true I don’t really know, as he was a bit of a joker.
This has only just occurred to me tonight after me taking to my sister and her saying “well you remember what dad was like”
He has been gone for so long that it just mustn’t have occurred to me.

Please ring social services - my sister did for my nephew in very similar circumstances. Same age - if you do it now he will be classed as a child in care and will have services available to him that you can’t access alone.

KTyoupigeon what was the outcome if you don’t mind me asking? I have phoned, I’m just waiting for someone to get back to me, so fingers crossed they can help.

@StarboysMum in my experience the far right views really do not come across as paranoia - and ultimately arm chair diagnoses dont help @Dramaqueen2019 , her boy just needs a thorough assessment and for mum to get some carer support.

@Dramaqueen2019 on your to do list please contact your local social care and ask for a carers assessment- you are entitled to one.

@IfOnlyOurEyesSawSouls - more good advice.

ifonlyoureyessawsouls would I be entitled to a carers assesment even though he has no diagnosis?

Could you pay privately to see a psychologist ( hidious I know) but would he even go ?

Sounds like it's time for him to fly the nest.

Does he earn enough to rent a decent room in a shared house? I know he's only 17 but maybe you could sign agreement on his behalf? He'll soon be 18 and able so sign his own lease.

Moving out tends to make these sorts of men/boys grow up and appreciate us. Sadly too few are doing so these days and it's leading to some worrying social trends.

And dramaqueen don't feel guilty - having to deal with someone aggressive and dangerous is actually worse than drugs and staying out all night. Many druggies are actually quite nice people otherwise.

I know you love him and he's your son but he sounds down right dangerous. He can't just be pushed out into the world on his own with his Nazi beliefs. This description of him sounds similar to so many young men who later engage in shootings of innocent people. Not saying your son will do this but it seems a massive red flag. Please do all you can to get access to Prevent or any other de-radicalisation programme that can help rid him of his vile views, before he acts on them.

Drama - please make contact with IPSEA and SEN!SOS and make it clear that you have one DC diagnosed as autistic and another that was never diagnosed although CAMHS and education staff had concerns but is now severely struggling. Facebook will point you to local groups that may be able to help.

DS1, now that he is 18, argues he was misdiagnosed (we had to fight and he wasn't privately diagnosed until 11 and it was disputed by the LA before being accepted by the NHS prior to Tribunal).

He would rather be psychotic than autistic - what does that say about our inclusive society? But he has an EHCP which gets him a PB to pay for private tutors which he needs for the structure and a life plan despite the fact he can't attend college (he says he hates the building and the staff so it looks like won't). He receives PIP and ESA because despite what he says the reality is that he can't function independently atm. He is so angry. He also has mental health workers for an hour each week that visit him at home. So he has hate filled rage (that family has to live with) but also support. You just have the anger fuelled/hate filled rage. You need to take care of yourself so that you can support him and your other DC

I believe schizophrenia has a genetic element, so please mention about your dad to Children's Services when they get back to you.

Also, there is a book called 'And I don't want to live this life' written by the mother of Nancy Spungeon (Sid Vicious' girlfriend). Nancy sounds very much like your son; very intelligent but deeply callous and destructive from a young age. The mother used to lock the younger children in their bedrooms at night for their own safety because she was scared Nancy would attack them while the family slept. The mother obviously felt a lot of (undeserved) guilt and it might help you to read about somebody who has been in a very similar situation to you.

OP just wanted to check if he knows you go on mumsnet? I'm Worried he may be able to or already reading this thread?

Also, it is not widely recognised that there is often significant developmental cognitive delay - even if so-called HF- so a chronologically 17 year old may be functioning at 2/3 of that. Would you really think that your 11/12 year old was ready to fly the nest even if they had 17 year old physiology?

No of course I dont want him to move out, nor do I think he’s ready. But you know what, when I look at my other younger children struggling wondering why everything is so strained right now it makes me feel that way.
I love him but just don’t know what to do. Social services can’t help me apparently anyway, as he’s 17.
He earns £200 a week between his 2 jobs, no idea if that is even enough to get a room.
Don’t think he’d cope anyway, he can’t even organise his room.
The thing that makes me the most annoyed is his complete lack of emotion or any response on his face, I know it shouldn’t but it makes me so frustrated. It’s completely blank, completely. He thinks he’s better than everyone and that annoys me also. I know I’m an adult and should rise above it yet I just can’t help it.
I never rang prevent he said he would never speak to me again if I do. Yes that makes me weak but I truly believe he wouldn’t. But right now maybe that’s ok. I don’t know. I know I should ring although I don’t think he’s a threat as in terrorism though. I just think he’s got stuck on a belief and got obsessed on it.

This sounds really really tough.

But - 'getting an idea nd getting obsessed with it'is how terrorists start. National Socialist isnt a euphemism for Nazi - it IS Nazi.

Doesn't matter if he threatens he wont talk to you again. You need to act on what he is saying to you
Again I'm so so sorry for you. This isnt easy I'm sure. But he has to know the seriousness of what he is doing. And if he cant understand it from you maybe he will understand it from Prevent.

I’m sorry you’re going through this OP. I can’t quite tell from your posts, is he still in school / college? If so, can you ask to speak to their ‘designated safeguarding lead’ and ask them to complete an ‘Early Help’ form? Once an Early Help is completed, different agencies (CAMHS, Ed psych, social services etc) have to work together to build support around a child (and he is still a child). It might help you feel a little less isolated too. Good luck

Does anyone know the number for prevent? I can’t find it anywhere

I know it sounds scary but unfortunately I believe you have to ring 101, explain the situation and ask your local police force to refer you to prevent:

http://www.ltai.info/faqs/
https://www.ltai.info/what-is-prevent/

They overuse the word terrorism IMO as the public perception of this isn't quite what they mean - in your head replace that word with extremism when you read the info.

You poor thing, I really hope things get better

I know...: my 7 year old did the salute today. I said what are you doing? He said oh [redacted] does it every time he walks into his room. Not having my younger 2 believing any of this

Identifying information edited by MNHQ

You might want to get HQ to remove the post with his name in it just there OP.

It all sounds really tough and you have my sympathy

Hi OP, so sad reading your posts. What you describe sounds like flat affect. DB was diagnosed with schizophrenia aged 24. He had social communication issues and OCD behaviours.

camhs basically said he has social communication difficulties and obsessive behaviours but he’s an intelligent boy so we will leave it for now

This is such a shame. I hope this system changes.

he is an intelligent boy and needs to learn that life doesn’t always go how he wants it to. Other people matter too

Yes and he needs to learn not to spout racist, sexist and homophobic views.

As there’s nothing wrong with him of course and he doesn’t want anything in his medical records.

This is very sad. This is about wanting to be a pilot and not having the childhood dream taken away. A part of me thinks why is your son allowed to get away with the belief that having something on his medical records is game over? This isn't true and there are lots of aviation related jobs.

Knowing what I know now I would bribe, coax, get someone with you to take him to to the doctors, alongside social services/prevent, looking at apprenticeships.

So I went into a mild rage telling him I wanted him out and he doesn’t call the shots in this house.

Can you focus on building self esteem instead? He sounds quite traumatised. Don't give up - the brain is still developing so you can still make an impact.

I feel for you, and wonder what sort of people he is talking to online. The white supremacy stuff is scary and abhorrent, and it sounds like he is being radicalised by someone.

I am not in the UK, bit I'd be following every link that PP have given you.

As an aside, I'm not sure that it's ASD or autism that's the problem. Complete lack of empathy, extremist viewpoints ,the feeling he is better than everyone else etc can all contribute to a diagnosis of sociopathy/psychopathy. The fire starting is worrying and again, I haven't heard of that in connection to autism ( happy to be wrong here) .I'd be sending him to a psychiatrist if you could get him there.

I wouldn’t feel bad about how you feel, sounds like you’re going through hell. And he’s putting you there. At that age though I imagine he truly doesn’t give a shit about anyone but himself. His dad should have him half the time. Regardless of what he’s done it’s his son too. That would take the pressure off you