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Original poster

I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

999 replies

Persimmonn · 13/03/2019 10:30

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

OP posts:
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EssentialHummus · 13/03/2019 10:40

I watched it as well OP, and I agree. (The first tape (!) I ever bought was MJ's - even though I wouldn't call myself a fan, his music is very much "there" in my background.)

It makes for very difficult viewing. Particularly, for me, the mum/mums repeatedly asking the boys whether anything happened, and being told no. Just how deep it all went. I like to think that if any (any) adult suggested a sleepover with my child I'd tell them to get to fuck, but watching this made me wonder about how he manage to seduce the adults, too. I don't think it was just his wealth that did it.

Original poster
Persimmonn · 13/03/2019 11:22

Yeah, he really ingrained himself into the families didn’t he? and this is something we now know abusers do and read over and over again in news stories. It’s so text book and in plain sight.

But I feel the mothers were also pushy, out for the lifestyle, like Safechuck’s mother admitted. MJ saw the opportunity with these boys because of them.

There’s so many videos of him walking around with young boys and back then, it seemed cute. Now looking back, why would a grown man who was a music icon want to walk around with kids? It’s like Kanye West or Jay Z or Justin Bieber walking around with children all the time.

OP posts:
Foonababoonalagoona · 13/03/2019 11:43

I was a huge Michael Jackson but always believed he was guilty. Me and my DH were arguing the other night before we watched the documentary as he thought everyone was lying and out for money. I only managed to watch about half of the first episode because it sickened me so much I actually felt upset. Me and DH didn't speak as we were so annoyed with each other . I am curious to know what he thinks now but don't know if I can actually watch the rest of it.

RussellSprout · 13/03/2019 11:45

No non-paedo would spend that much time with young boys, seek them out on a 1:1 basis, invite them to stay and sleep in his bed etc.

There is no doubt that Jacko was a Paedo, except from those who are deluding themselves

Original poster
Persimmonn · 13/03/2019 11:52

I think anyone who is still maintaining he didn’t do anything, really needs to watch the documentary. The family are telling people not to watch it which is stupid. The documentary isn’t sensationalist at all. It’s straight forward accounts of what happened.

Foona, interesting you say that. My dh has always said MJ wasn’t a good man and I would always defend him. I even got my kids into his music. Now I accept I was wrong and I believe the victims. Dh just shrugs and says “I told you”.

I don’t think I can listen to his music again without feeling disgust.

OP posts:
Dowser · 13/03/2019 12:11

That creepy voice he talks in

( shudders)

Hobbes8 · 13/03/2019 12:15

I watched about an hour of the documentary and felt I’d seen enough. But it didn’t seem any different to accounts we’d heard before - we already knew he befriended young boys and had sleepovers, didn’t we? It didn’t seem any different to previous accusers.

I get the horror and disgust at his actions, I just don’t understand why this is substantially different to what was already known about him. It wasn’t proven back then, it still isn’t, but the evidence that he was a paeodophile has always seemed pretty overwhelming to me.

sadandtired19 · 13/03/2019 12:16

The documentary is so totally honest.

We, unfortunately have personal experience, and kids don't speak out. No matter how good your relationship as a parent, they won't tell you because they don't want to upset you.

Thought it was a really well made documentary.

RussellSprout · 13/03/2019 12:17

Hobbes8 I guess there was a narrative that he was just an innocent childlike persona due to having no childhood of his own... that's how he got away with it when he was alive.

I was on the fence back in the 90s when it first happened.

No I have no doubt.

sadandtired19 · 13/03/2019 12:17

Hobbes8 the last 2 hours is the most compelling.

EstrellaDamn · 13/03/2019 12:17

I'm sorry but - up until now you genuinely believed he had little boys sleep in his bed for purely innocent reasons??

As far as I'm concerned his being a padeophile has never even been in question. How much more obvious could it have been??

ineedaknittedhat · 13/03/2019 12:20

He always made my flesh crawl. Had a pathetic voice as well. Horrible man.

RussellSprout · 13/03/2019 12:22

If you are talking to me Estrella please be aware that in the 90s I was only a kid myself. I haven't thought about it constantly since 1995!

PrincessDaff · 13/03/2019 12:26

I watched it all. The second part made me cry. It was so obviously what was going on when you look back. I dont know how anybody can say they don't believe it, he was 100% a peodophile and the defense of him being a child in the head I believe was a clever cover up from him.

EstrellaDamn · 13/03/2019 12:29

Well, I was talking to the OP really, but to anyone else who thought he was just a man with the mind of a child Hmm

I was also a kid in the 90s and it was glaringly fucking obvious. I'm baffled by all this coming as a shock now.

GreenTulips · 13/03/2019 12:30

I’m shocked you’re shocked! I think it was blindingly obvious!

DD did a concert last year and they had to sing to a MJ song - made me feel sick just listening to them. I’ve always turned the radio off when his songs play.

Glad people have finally woke up and avoiding his music

Biancadelrioisback · 13/03/2019 12:30

I always hoped it wasn't true. I adored him and his music. I haven't seen the documentaries and I won't watch them. I believe 100% that he did it now. I've heard about the documentaries, that and being a parent and thinking about it logically there is no way he innocent. I feel sick thinking about him and everything he did. I'd read about people saying "oh we should ban his music" and I always thought they were silly whereas now I refuse to have it on.

sagradafamiliar · 13/03/2019 12:34

I don't get all these people claiming to be in disbelief and shattered by this. A woman I know keeps hashtagging #mjinnocent and picking apart the documentary on Instagram. Even as a kid growing up in the 90s, it was clear that he was a very strange individual at best- odd behaviour aside he used to go around hand in hand with young children fgs- and I couldn't have been less shocked to hear among the first 'accusations'. Maybe I was born a bit too late to have been taken in by him?

pepperpot99 · 13/03/2019 12:38

Yep it's very clear that MJ was an extremely dedicated and skilful paedophile who used his fame and wealth to groom and abuse children, then evade justice. He bought his way out of it.

IMO he is as bad as Savile and I think his music should never be played on radio again.

darksideofbuttonmoon · 13/03/2019 12:42

I was a kid in the 90s and remember the original allegations. Even then I knew what a peadophile was and didn't really doubt that MJ was one. When he was found innocent of molestation in '05 I assumed he was 'innocent' in the same way as OJ Simpson was. To be honest, I'm suprised at people's suprise at the latest allegations.

teyem · 13/03/2019 12:44

We would sing rude songs in the playground about MJ in the eighties - most of the words I didn't understand but it was clear enough he was a bad egg. It didn't amount to proof but certainly there was enough doubt around at the time that it filtered down to our young ears.

And then, after that point there was court cases, settlements, a string of kids on his arm and the Bashir documentary. I don't get how anyone suspended their disbelief this long, tbh.

LoadOfUtterBoswellocks · 13/03/2019 12:45

Do I think he was a paedo? Yes.

Do I love his music and his moves? Also yes.

I feel conflicted about it, but while I do believe the men I also worry about making a judgement about someone who is not around, based on an edited documentary and not on proper forensic (in the sense of "would stand up in court") evidence and witnesses and expert opinion on both sides. I don't now believe he was innocent, but we have legal standards that were hard-won and I feel a bit weird about condemning someone (anyone) outwith those standards.

Sharpandshineyteeth · 13/03/2019 12:46

I don’t think I really understood how much time he spent alone with young boys.

I think that’s what I found shocking. These ‘friendships’ he had.

Aeroflotgirl · 13/03/2019 12:47

I agree, nobody can comment unless they have seen the documentary. This is the type of hold he had on people. I expect those MJ super fans have not seen it. One side he tried to portray this image of damaged superstar, vulnerable and childlike who would never hurt children, the other was a seedy and unsavoury and quite frankly dark side to him. The material found at his Neverland Ranch was quite frankly shocking, it shows the type of person that he was. His behaviour was not normal, what adult seeks out young children and spends a lot of time a lone with them. He really worked on their parents, for them to allow him to do that, that they let their guard down and allowed him to have access to them.

If you google the evidence found at Neverland Ranch by Police, it makes for really disturbing viewing. I expect that if the kids parents were to know this, they would never have allowed him to spend any time with their vulnerable children. Jimmy Safechuck looked absolutely broken. It was not until he had his own children, and his son was the same age as him, that the gravity of what happened to him hit home. They needed to open up, so that they would move forward, and heal. Yes seek compsensation for MJ wrecking their lives, no different to somebody sueing a hospital for malpractice, or getting compensation for injury. Maybe it will help them pay for the therapy they need to help them.

multivac · 13/03/2019 12:48

I just don’t understand why this is substantially different to what was already known about him

I think it's because the subjects of the documentary themselves have always maintained his innocence up to now (hence those who refuse to countenance Jackson's guilt throwing vitriol at them as 'chancers' and 'only out for money'). But everyone I know who has experience of abuse and has watched the programme says that the victims' responses and behaviour across time are absolutely textbook. They were in love with him. They still are.