I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

[Persimmonn]

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

Best big a victim of abuse and also wanting money are not mutually exclusive.

They may well be speaking up NOW because they need money but it doesn’t in anyway make what they are saying untrue. The evidence of MJ being a master manipulator and child molester are plain as the nose on your face for those who are willing to see. Courts of law deal with the legal consequences of actions and therefore need the burden of proof, but no one needs a court of law to tell them the truth of easily observable facts. To say otherwise is to foster cognitive dissonance, which is abuse.

Yeah this really creeps me out. His real voice

They may well be speaking up NOW because they need money but it doesn’t in anyway make what they are saying untrue.

No that’s totally true. I know a little bit about Wade because he is a choreographer and prior to my now career I used to dance...anyway, he has had a couple of court cases and his most recent one was thrown out by the judge who said the trouble is you have changed your story so many times I can no longer believe you.

I think that’s the issue. I have no doubt I’m my mind MJ was a creep and a paedo, but because wade and James testified twice and said twice in court as well as many other times publically, that there was no abuse, people now use that as leverage to doubt them. It’s really damaging for victims.

Having watched the documentary I haven’t changed my mind in MJ and I think I would probably still listen to his music should it come on the radio... although I know I will get flamed for saying that

Even his 'real voice' sounds creepy. There was more to MJ than some want to believe.

Where are the paedo apologists?

@NewspaperTaxis

Jimmy Savile definitely hid in plain sight. I was a student nurse at Stoke Mandeville in the early 80's and his tendencies were well-known but never spoken about publicly - although as student nurses aged 18+ we were too old for him. He was still a creepy bastard though, when I met him (I had no choice in the matter) he french-kissed the palm of my hand, in front of several senior hospital officials. He thought he was being fucking hilarious.

A better version of MJ real voice

I think that’s the issue. I have no doubt I’m my mind MJ was a creep and a paedo, but because wade and James testified twice and said twice in court as well as many other times publically, that there was no abuse, people now use that as leverage to doubt them. It’s really damaging for victims.

In my opinion (for legal purposes) I think those boys' parents quite literally sold their souls. They traded protecting their children for cold, hard cash.

Their actions are STILL hampering their children to this day.

Or this for his regular voice

I agree 101AR money talks,and MJ could buy access to kids, as well as promises of career development etc.

I’ve just been reading the comments on you tube and the MJ superfans are now saying he chose to speak with a higher voice in order to preserve his vocal chords....

Aeroflotgirl I thought it at the time, when I was a child. As a parent it is incomprehensible to me, the primary purpose of a parent is to protect their child, at all costs. Not to sell them to a beast.

Loadof your opinion is as valid as any, I'm not sure why you quoted me if what I wrote wasn't relevant to you.

Fairylea they are just as bad as he was, my goodness, what a bunch of loons. I agree, they sold their soul to the devil basically, now obviously they are devastated that they did this and how they behaved.

I adored MJ as a kid and teenager but I remember buying a newspaper when the first allegations came out and being unnerved.
I believed all the bullshit to some extent but now if I see a clip of him I find him so creepy and there is something deeply cold and disturbing in his eyes.
It's frightening how in plain sight it can be and how we all are groomed - still buying his fucking records when he was inviting boys to sleep in his bed.

No that’s totally true. I know a little bit about Wade because he is a choreographer and prior to my now career I used to dance...anyway, he has had a couple of court cases and his most recent one was thrown out by the judge who said the trouble is you have changed your story so many times I can no longer believe you.

Again though, the fact that Wade may have lied about detail in order to bypass statutes of limitation and the like, still does not mean that he is lying about the abuse. In order for him to gain from MJ’s estate he would have to prove that the estate were in some way culpable. It may be that MJ was an abuser but was in no way facilitated by his companies (doubtful), in which case Wade would need to “adjust” facts in order to gain compensation - still doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. It may be that MJ was an abuser and he was facilitated by his companies but Wade cannot prove it, in which case he may twist facts in order to suit - still doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

It may be that Wade, due to trauma, has memory issues or even a personality disorder and he may not be a credible witness in a court of law - still doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Holding victims to purity standards that mean they must be above reproach before they are believed is exactly why rape cases have such poor conviction rates. You can be a douche bag AND a victim of childhood sexual abuse and I believe was was a victim (and is quite likely a bit of a douche).

I don’t believe what MJ did and his usical abilities are mutually exclusive. It’s still possible to acknowledge that he was a good musician while at the same time acknowledging that he almost certainly abused young boys. I don’t judge people for listening to his music and I wouldn’t personally switch it off, but that doesn’t mean I have to like the man that he was iyswim.

But tbh all this being shocked, cheated, upset, devastated talk is pathetic. This isn’t someone people knew personally, this is a singer who you knew only from his music and that which was broadcast about him. Nothing more. He is nothing to the fans who have chosen to believe he is innocent, and the fans haven’t personally been cheated, they need to seriously get a grip and get back to the real world. It’s up there with people who claim to be grieving for this and that famous person who has died. All incredibly unhealthy.

NoCauseRebel - that's deeply unempathetic to those that are triggered by this because they are abuse victims.

luggs oh I agree, I’m not a fan of Wade but I do believe him

There’s a difference though between someone who is themselves a victim of abuse and who is triggered by a documentary about someone who themselves was abused (although the revelations have been there for decades so this isn’t a new revelation) and someone who claims to be cheated and upset because they were a fan of a pop star and didn’t think they would do such a thing. The latter are not victims, they’re pop music fans. That is all.

And actually, IMO it’s deeply un-empathetic towards actual victims of abuse when these nobodies start claiming that they feel betrayed all because they were fans of his music. It displaces the blame and gives them status which they do not own.

I definitely believe the men in the documentary. The one who spoke about not realising the extent of the abuse until he had his own son, that really broke my heart. And it was obvious they were still in love with him.
He may not have abused every boy in his company (the likes of Caulkin) which made credible witnesses to testify for him.

What makes me sad is that if it were young girls it wouldn't have even made it beyond his death he'd have died in prison for his crimes. It feels like because there are young boys no one believes them. Statistically men are less likely to speak out about abuse and this is doing nothing to help that.

I like to think he was riddled with guilt which is why he was taking so many sleeping pills and opioids, which lead to his death. But who knows 🤷🏻‍♀️

Northernrunner I've heard the argument that Wade's cases were dismissed due to inaccuracies several times now, but it's just not true.

The first case was dismissed due to the timeframe imposed by the statue of limitations and the second case was dismissed due to the fact that for obvious reasons it's the company being sued. The case was therefore amended as it is not possible for a company to sexually abuse a child - in its latest form the suit had to bring the burden of proof that former employees associated with the company had facilitated Michael Jackson's abuse.

No judge has dismissed any of the suits as being invalid because of the accusations themselves.

cosmo that’s interesting thank you!