I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

[Persimmonn]

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

indeedaknittedhat at the time I was a teenager myself in the 90's and never really took much notice of his music, I was more into Reggae, and other stuff, but seeing him talking to Martin Bashier and after his trial, it just made my flesh crawl.

It’s been blindingly obvious since the first allegations came out.

MJ threatened them with jail and being taken away from their families if they spoke up, it looked like even after his death, MJ still had hold over them until now. Yes it is classic textbook abuser behaviour.

A bit off subject but l can’t recall the last time l heard his music played on the radio, l wonder if there has been a ban on his music or is it just not relevant anymore. I have always believed the stories about him.

I’d always known in my heart he was really weird to be hanging out with young boys. And always thought he’d bought his innocence with huge payouts to victims. It was actually hearing and seeing these two men that really brought it home to me the immense damage he has done to so many lives. Seeing them and their family’s fractured and traumatised was shocking and heartbreaking. I also didn’t realise just how much time he spent with young boys or how they disturbingly were dressed like his mini-me’s and how much they adored him. It’s would not be impossible for me to hear his music without my mind going straight to what he’s done. I’m lucky in that I am too old to have grown up with his music and I’ve never been a fan but I did like his stuff and thought he was incredibly talented. It’s sad for people like the OP for whom his music and dancing played a big part in their lives.

I mean it would now be impossible to listen to his music.

The thing is that it was always in plain sight. Long before it went to court everyone knew that he had sleepovers with young boys at Neverland. Unbelievable, though, isn't it? Hard to imagine that today.

DH has always been a huge fan, me less so but we put all of his CDs we had into the recycling bank. After watching that, there's no way I could ever listen to his music again.

He may have been talented but he was also a very sick person.

I was incredibly moved by the documentary. I actually cried at the second part. The emotions of Wade and James were so raw and plain to see. Their whole lives have been so destroyed. It’s just terrible.

I was a child when MJ was at the height of his fame and I loved his music. I can never listen to it again now. It makes me feel sick.

The detail they went into was shocking and things they had to do to MJ at a very young age. I guess those designer things came at a price, MJ bought their silence. Interesting reading.

www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/06/21/items-discovered-police-michael-jackson/ Just gives you an insight into his interests.

MJ supporters, would say, they are art books etc and try and minimise it. But like child indecent images, children would have to be abused to produce those images. Adults exerting their power over a helpless child. I am sure that they children cannot consent fully to having naked pictures taken of them for the pleasure of adults. I never took naked pictures of my children in baths or running about, it is just so wrong, they are just so vulnerable.

That creepy voice he talks in

and according to Lisa Marie Presley and David guest, that wasn't how he really spoke in private, he had a normal mans voice :/

"I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc"

We could all maybe use this reminder: sometimes things are not as they appear, and it's wise to hear all the evidence before judging, even privately. I feel like we all tend to leap in too quickly, myself very much included in that. Props to you for recognising this and learning from it.

Despite all this, and despite believing the victims, I don't think a person can be marked as "guilty" without a trial and official evidence considered by a judge.

Could there still be a trial, even if the perpetrator has died?

I was never a fan of MJ or his music and always thought he was creepy as fuck. Does the programme say how many of those boys' families received money from MJ? I know some did and I've never got my head around those parents effectively prostituting their sons for money.

The documentary didn't convince me. Especially when there isn't a second side to help make judgment. Many of the so-called witnesses are disgruntled employees. Not to mention those two men as adults testified that he didn't touch them
Also these men are suing the estate after all their opportunities have dried up. They are both unemployed guys looking for a buck.

That said, it's also possible that they were telling the truth and that they are also out for a buck.

Either way, I'm on the fence with this one

I wasn't surprised at the allegations and never doubted their truth. The whole concept of Neverland just struck me as off. I'm of an age where we were told that strangers might offer you sweets to tempt you into a car - and that place just looked like one big bag of sweets.

I think his music was good of its kind but don't really know why anyone thought he was innocent.

I am not only looking at the documentary, but other evidence of MJ seedy other side. Like you said, you cannot be 100% certain that he did not abuse, but the hallmarks are there.

When I was wee there were two famous men, both held in high esteem and widely adored, that my mother absolutely hated. Said they were wrong yins and made her skin crawl.

One was MJ, the other was Jimmy Savile.

This was before any allegations were ever made btw.

Do you think you'd say the same on here if they were female victims Iboogy ?What ever happened to 'I believe you' first?

I've always thought he was guilty, he scared me as a kid and I couldn't watch anything with him in. I've only watched the first half and was already crying, it's a bit close to home for me personally but I actually cried for the mothers and the guilt they must feel. DH is still on the fence, he thinks MJ is guilty but he doesn't believe these victims, he finds their disassociation unbelievable, which is odd given he knows my history and how detached I am if speaking about it.

It's sickening that so many people are attacking the victims, using their previous testimonies against them and their go to argument is 'they're only speaking now because he's dead and can't defend himself' or 'Macaulay Culkin needs to speak'; they are so unwilling to understand how MJ got into their heads to protect him, how much he paid off, how some families are willing to take money over their children's justice (there are women/families who easily turn a blind eye to abuse, especially if they profit!). MJ never defended himself, he paid people off and was one of the most powerful people in the world, and he probably didn't abuse celeb children because they had a public platform of their own and were too risky.

I won't miss MJ's music. I liked his stuff from the 70s/80s but it's never been essential listening. I am actually conflicted though about listening to The Jackson 5, I really enjoy their music and it's not the 'same' MJ iykwim? I have some of their stuff on playlists, but it may be too sad to listen to it.

The thing that angers me is that in all other celebrity/historical cases there was never any doubting the victims yet here it is well documented in photos etc his relationships with young boys. This pathetic 'he was child like' excuse, no he wasn't mentally impaired, who in the everloving fuck thinks a little boy sharing a bed with a non family member adult man is ok? It was ignored because of his $$ and what all the sycophants, record company etc were making from him.

That creepy voice was put on?

In the 80's and 90's I always believed MJ was still a child at heart, hence his desire to surround himself with children, and playact at being a child with them. That was the narrative then.
It seems I was wrong.
The most disturbing thing about this, is the fact he was able adopt 3 children. One of internet searches was for adoption sites.

He clearly was a paedophile. He was also very talented and I feel sad that I've lost his music. There's no way I could listen to it now.

I didn't know his voice was put on! Aren't his brothers quite softly spoken as well though? His singing voice was quite Mickey Mouse-like. Ew.