I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

[Persimmonn]

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

To be very blunt, that’ll teach you to blindly idolise strangers in future.

How long will it take for the creepy, superfans to descend on this thread and start harping on the discrepancy between the timelines of James realising MJ was abusing him and him telling his mom that MJ was a 'bad man', I wonder........

Tbh I don’t see what there is to be gained by anyone defending him. However I do also think that the parents are culpable. What kind of parent sends their child to sleep at a man’s house and share a bed with them? It’s very easy to sit here and say the parents must have been groomed to but come on! Groomed? No, dazzled more like.

If fans can feel betrayed by all this stuff then surely it stands to reason that a parent whose child is favoured by some super star is also going to feel dazzled by it and do anything in order to ensure that relationship continues? IMO MJ may have committed the actual abuse, but the parents of the boys he abused were equally culpable.

What makes me sad is that if it were young girls it wouldn't have even made it beyond his death he'd have died in prison for his crimes.

Different country and legal system, but Savile managed to evade prison for his entire life, as do many other abusers. There is an issue here with lack of belief, but don't assume that girls are often believed, when so much of the evidence points to the reverse.

Well @lboogy I guess that accounts for the 3% conviction rate for rape really. Maybe society should lead the way on raising victims up instead of demonising them in court.

Most rape victims don't defend their rapist repeatedly then when they are down on their luck change their mind and decide to tell the 'truth' when big money is on the line

There's a real danger is trying people by documentary. Yes he's a weird guy, but that doesn't make him a molester and rapist

I could only watch half the documentary because of the graphic nature of what they described . My heart hurt for anyone whose experienced anything close to that horrific . But the idea that I would be called a pedo apologist is offensive.

lboogy I think he was more than just a 'weird man' actually, totally excluding the documentary, some people just have blinkers on. What was found in his ranch by Police was quite shocking.

His behaviour towards boys was very concerning, calling him a weird man is somehow minimising his actions.

Most rape victims don't defend their rapist repeatedly

Actually, in cases where children have bonds with their abuser (usually family but can be an outsider in some circumstances) and the abuse is non-violent, coercive and involves gaslighting, many child abuse victims do exactly that and go to great lengths to protect their abuser. You’re ignorant of how abuse dynamics can play out.

Most rape victims don't defend their rapist repeatedly

Bollocks. It’s very common if a child is involved or it’s a family member, husband, boyfriend.

Or as in this case, someone in a position of power.

It would probably stop if you stopped defending a paedophile, tbh.

I could only watch half the documentary because of the graphic nature of what they described . My heart hurt for anyone whose experienced anything close to that horrific

But you're happy to publicly doubt their accounts?

You're being called an apologist, because it's what you're doing.

MJ wasn't god, he was a beast.

I could only watch half the documentary because of the graphic nature of what they described . My heart hurt for anyone whose experienced anything close to that horrific . But the idea that I would be called a pedo apologist is offensive

How can you even comment if you've not heard the men's accounts of what happened to them? If you had watched the 2nd half of the documentary, I'm pretty sure you would believe these men. It was utterly harrowing and left no doubt(not that I ever doubted Jackson was a paedo) in my mind that these men are telling the truth.

I don't think he felt guilty, probably just realised he will get caught one day as his victims were getting older and less afraid of him or maybe it was getting more difficult to find new kids to abuse. Medicating to avoid those thoughts.

Wade has co-writing credits for Nsync and Britney Spears. Im sure hes financially fine.

probably just realised he will get caught one day as his victims were getting older and less afraid of him or maybe it was getting more difficult to find new kids to abuse

Actually, when did he stop hanging around publicly with kids? Was it after the Martin Bashir blow up? Did he do it more privately in the last few years before he died?

I really don’t think anyone who hasn’t watched the whole documentary has the right to say they don’t believe them to be honest.

I’ve sat through many horrifying child abuse trials. He would 100 per cent be convicted in a UK court on the compelling evidence those men provided. There’s no question they were telling the truth.

Everything they said fitted consistently with every similar trial I’ve seen. The slow and calculated grooming of the entire family, the victim’s denials into adulthood, the difficulty the victim has with their feelings of love for their abuser even after the realisation. It’s absolute textbook grooming and their stories also fit with the context that occurred in the public domain - with MJ publicly changing his alliegences as the boys grew too old for his tastes, with the extravagant gifts that were carefully timed to coincide with the times they gave evidence.

No person wants to believe their idol is a paedophile. But he was a paedophile.

@lboogy 'Presumption of innocence' is a LEGAL term only. It doesn't apply in general society. It doesn't apply outside court.

So who were those kids he used to walk around with who were disguised? thats what used to really freak me out

pat maybe his own?

Those who think these men are making it up, do you really think Wade created the bit about beng called into the studio and told to get rid of his underwear urgently because of blood evidence?

wernt they surrogates? how any children does he have?

@Palominoo 1. You have no idea how hard it is to come out about abuse, especially if you are a male victim, let alone up against someone powerful and with obsessive fanatical and abusive fans.

1. They are not getting any money. They are not eligible as it's past the statute of limitations. They also didn't get a single cent for doing this documentary.

So you are ill-informed and in denial.

MJ had three children. The mother of the older two was his then wife, Debbie Rowe. The youngest, Blanket, had a different mother - Michael claimed at various times that she was a just a surrogate but alternatively would sometimes state that they had had a real relationship.

All were supposed to be biologically his, but the older two definitely bear little resemblance to him in any way. Mark Lester has also claimed to be Paris Jackson's father, but none of this can really be verified - no one involved is going to be doing any DNA testing any time soon.

The reasoning behind the masks was so they could go out in public with their nannies and not be recognised.... but still creepy.