I feel upset, sick and cheated by Leaving Neverland

[Persimmonn]

I was one of those people who kept saying the men are out to make money. That there’s no evidence etc. But I finally watched the documentary yesterday and it’s hurt me a lot. I feel like I was lied to my whole life. I know it sounds so melodramatic and selfish but MJ was my idol growing up. I remember being 7 years old and dancing and singing his songs.

Now I feel sick to the core. If Wade Robson and James Safechuck are lying, then they’re incredibly good liars.

MJ was a paedophile.

Not at all, I've explained various times why the two cases are different. People will say that is just Jackson bias, but the type of reaction from victims in the Saville case, plus the sheer volume and lastly the fact they had no way of knowing what the others had said (yet remained consistent) makes me think he was more than guilty of those crimes.

You keep pointing out that lots of others hold the same view as you. Lots of people believe the world is flat, it doesn't make them right.

From the very beginning Team Michael has been all about discrediting the witnesses. Have you never done anything questionable in your past? If you were the victim of a crime would that mean that you deserved to be disbelieved? This is exactly how it goes with any victim of sexual assault and it is the reason conviction rates are so shamefully low

No, it’s not just that people are disagreeing with you.

It’s the nature of your objections that are so offensive.

People lying about sexual abuse (even under oath) and then choosing to talk about it as adults is in no way, shape or form evidence that their testimony should be disregarded.

That you are actively choosing to see it that way is repellent.

In fact, it’s irrelevant. If you were a mature, reasoning, sensible individual you would know that. You’re not.

And who gives a shit whether other people agree with you or not. Nobody else is posting as desperately and frequently as you. Your obsession over this is quite disgusting & more than a little disturbing.

I'm not saying they shouldn't talk about it. But as they chose to and made it public in their film, then people will discuss it. If there are blatant lies in their stories, people will say quite rightly "hang on a minute".

Or is it because they are talking about abuse, you aren't allowed to come back with anything? Has there never been anyone in history who has lied about being abused. Some on here seem to be stumbling over themselves to make excuses or give reasons, without actually knowing them or if that is/was the case. It's speculation.

You're refusing to listen to anything anyone tells you, you have decided they are lying and that's that in your mind regardless of what evidence there is to the contrary

No, because you're clearly getting a kick from being goady to others, knowingly insensitive, and are deluded. Or are you? After all, you clearly have an agenda. Unless that's just you taking the piss.
In any case, you come across like an attention-seeking teenager thinking they're all controversial going against the grain.

If they were telling the truth, they wouldn't have to lie now. They have been caught with massive inconsistencies and lies in their latest version of events.

If you can't see that Robson at the very least is as un-credible a witness as you could hope for, then you are blind. I have a hard time believing anything coming out of his mouth. Safechuck has been caught out as well, sorry but no I think Dan Reed is the one with an agenda here.

There is a video on youtube someone has done (not a MJ fan/or claimed his innocence) who has compared the verbal body language of Robson/Safechuck against those of real abuse victims. Let's just say he doesn't believe them either. Their body language is way, way off and as inconsistent as their stories which makes sense. I won't post the link on here as it will send this place in meltdown.

We are going round in circles, why can't you just accept I see it one way and you see it another without throwing insults as anyone who disagrees with you. It is a forum after all.

Body language?

That’s your “evidence”? How pathetic and desperate you are.

And you have no business whining about insults when you are publicly calling a number of people “liars”.

All things considered, whether you like it or you don’t, it is highly likely that the grown man who consistently shared his bed with children (in locked rooms rigged with early-warning systems) did indeed sexually abuse them.

This the same grown man who never had a sexual relationship with an adult, male or female, and who despite claims of adoring all children, elected to share his bed with only male pre-pubescent children.

Jackson’s behaviour alone - never mind the accounts from the victims - gives the allegations credence.

If you can’t see that then there’s something very wrong with your thought processes.

They have been caught with massive inconsistencies and lies in their latest version of events

No, they haven’t.

It's not evidence, it's a video someone has posted.

If you would like to see it, it's here.

It am calling the two stars of the show liars, not people on here.

You have jumped to that conclusion, that's your prerogative, as I said some people think MJ is guilty no matter what.

Id like to know how you know for sure MJ didn't have sexual relationships with adults? Did you know him personally?

@AllAboutMeAlways really? They have duck....keep the blinkers on if you like.

No...you can’t backtrack. Sorry. You talked about the stupid video because you thought it shows something. No, I don’t want to watch it. I am not so stupid that I think “body language” shows who’s been abused and who hasn’t.

And yes...it was the fact that you are calling Wade & Safechuck liars that I was referring to. You think that’s OK just because they’re not on this thread.

You’re done. You’ve convinced nobody and have simply succeeded in making yourself look like a cheerleader for a paedophile.

Pick a better hero next time.

If Jackson had a sexual relationship with an adult, we’d know it. As it is, he didn’t have sex with either of his “wives”.

Know why? He only wanted little boys.

Where did I claim it was evidence before? Sorry must have missed it. You like to twist things though right? You won't watch it because you don't want to know. The guy comes off as very credible, as with the Scott Ross video. But the reason you won't watch either video is because you can't face the fact you might be wrong about these two.

That's both of your narrative, that MJ was a paedo, but you don't actually know that do you. Unless you were there and can claim to have seen evidence everyone else missed. The information out there, the stuff that was found in raids, the drawings of his penis, wasn't enough to convict him in 1994 and 2005. How many more trials do you want?

Or is this like Brexit, you you didn't get the answer you liked the first time so you want another go?

He wasn’t convicted in 1994 or 2005 due to his use of legal manoeuvring, highly skilled lawyers and the intimidation of his celebrity.

Please read the article I posted earlier from 2004. It isn’t sensationalist, it’s extremely detailed and well researched.

Well the jury from 2005 disagree with you. There was a lack of evidence, a massive lack of evidence.

Intimidation of his celebrity, didn't look intimidating hobbling into court.

I did read the article, full of lazy Jackonsisms. Didn't think much to it tbh.

Why do you think he took lots of young boys to bed over the years?

Why do you think he had alarms to warn him when people were approaching the bedroom?

The lack of evidence was due to evidence not being available, it doesn’t mean that all the evidence there could have been had come to light. Some obviously didn’t, due to his legal manoeuvres.

I don’t mean physical intimidation you numpty, I mean his reputation, money and ability to threaten/pay off those who went against him.

Although just to add that that exact frailty he showed during the case was quickly shown as a sham as he ran around jumping and celebrating after he’d been acquitted.

I sincerely hope you have read the article as it may just give you pause for thought.

@ccmrob12 wow comparing Brexit to multiple allegations of sexual abuse ?? Insane...
Let me ask you, exactly what would it take to convince you they MJ was guilty? Video evidence? Even then the “Stan fan” that you obviously are you would probably say it was doctored right? So despite 5 allegations of child abuse coming directly from the person’s themselves and over 10 of MJ’s staff all saying something was going on you STILL don’t believe ? People like you sicken me to the absolute core .

Would you let your own child stay in the bed with someone who had stashes of pictures of nude children , provactively posed ? Together with a nude photo of a child that is unrelated to them?
Would you consider this a safe thing to do?

@ccmrob12 a massive lack of evidence , I’m sorry were you at the trial?

Attached are court documents all freely available on the American court site . Let that sink in

You are projecting, ccmrob12. I have no emotional investment in whether Jackson is guilty or not. I don’t know any of the people involved, so why should I? If there was evidence that he was innocent, I’d certainly look at it - but there isn’t.

You, conversely, seem rather desperate to push your narrative making yourself look stupid in the process. I wonder why?

I’m not watching the video because it’s meaningless & contributes nothing. Wade & Safechuck don’t have the same “body language” as other victims of sex abuse? Seriously? Grow up.

Why do you think he took lots of young boys to bed over the years?

He didn't, most of the time he would offer his bed and sleep on the floor. Listen to the testimonies of people who were there instead of being lazy.

Why do you think he had alarms to warn him when people were approaching the bedroom?

I don't know, for a number of reason. Security is one. But what strikes me odd, if this was setup to perform the acts described, why didn't he commit all his offences there? After all it's a ready made trap right? Why do his accusers claim that they were abused in random places like hotel rooms, train stations (that weren't there) or award shows? Do you think he just fancied a challenge or the thrill of getting caught? It's ridiculous.

The lack of evidence was due to evidence not being available

Funny that, I would have never have guessed.

Let me ask you, exactly what would it take to convince you they MJ was guilty?

One victim with a consistent story for a start. One which is credible and doesn't have ulterior motives to make a complaint would be nice. But no just an honest account for a change would be a great start.

If he was this raging paedo as claimed, why did the police not find any child porn, love letters, videos etc, you usually find with paedos? You know something that could actually be used to prove his guilt? They raided him unannounced, they must have been able to find something more than a Playboy.

So despite 5 allegations of child abuse coming directly from the person’s themselves and over 10 of MJ’s staff all saying something was going on you STILL don’t believe ?

No because so far, they have all been found to be liars/criminals or opportunists. What are the odds that there wasn't a decent human being amongst all of them?

Would you let your own child stay in the bed with someone

I have already answered this, but no I wouldn't. Whether it was MJ or Stan down the road. No in either case. But some people would leave their kids with MJ, like Whoopi Goldberg. Is she a bad Mum? She made he own choice for her own daughter.

You, conversely, seem rather desperate to push your narrative making yourself look stupid in the process

I feel the narrative of this film is one-sided and inaccurate, so I commented on a forum thread about said topic. Where is the problem? Because I don't agree with you I have an agenda. So far I've been accused of being part of the MJ estate and an MJ impersonator. Hysteria and paranoia at it's finest.

@Lefty1 Yes I have seen all that. Those words were not mine, those were the words of the jury. Are you mad at me or them? Despite all that, they felt there wasn't enough to be convinced he was a kiddy fiddler. Even one juror who said before the trial started was convinced he had done these crimes. Go figure.

Wade & Safechuck don’t have the same “body language” as other victims of sex abuse? Seriously? Grow up

Out of context, you aren't going to watch the video then you are never going to get it. The jurors in 2005 used the same judgement when watching the video of Arvizo being interviewed by policed. They said his bod language didn't appear to be that of a boy who had suffered trauma when compared to others. Really childish....wow, clutching here guys!