Excluded from school. Year 1 aged 6.

[ItsTheGinTalking]

I have posted in SN children but feel there may be more traffic here
Also if you feel this shouldn't be here do delete it MN as I've posted in SN. Thank you

Hi everyone
Been a while since I posted on MN. But I've never posted in this group before.
My 6 yr old child is struggling at school socially. He has a referral to cahms in, referral to Educational Pyschologist, Community Peadiateician, CFIT and a few others
He hits other children, kicks, nips, shouts.
This started at the back end of reception class. I noticed stuff at home and mentioned to school but because he didn't show the behaviour they didn't say or do anything.

Now he is terrorising the class. He has an IEP in place and does anger management with WESAIL through the local council.

Academically he is doing well and is on year 2 reading books, is brilliant at his maths and spelling. But socially is where he lets himself down as school say.

He prefers 1-1 support so will do something in class that gets him removed because he likes to sit in the headteacher or the deputy heads office because it's quiet and he has that 1-1 support.

He prefers adult company and has said many times he's hates other kids especially his age or younger.
He has been brought up with older brothers and adults.

On Friday at 2.25 I got a phone call to say could I go to school asap...He has been excluded for 1.5 days and is not allowed back till Tuesday as the 1.5 has been included with Friday

I have a reintergrating meeting at 3.15 on Tuesday when I collect him. But is there anything I need to ask or question?

TIA

Good luck tomorrow

Your boy sounds so bright and lovely (the comment about wishing he hadn't hit the ta because be loves her is very sweet), just stuck in an environment that is utterly unsuited to his complicated needs.

I hope the appointment is all you need and that it all falls into place at this school. If it doesn't don't lose hope. Schools that appear very similar on the surface can be subtly different enough, even if just in attitude, to make a huge positive change for the child.

My ds has ASD & some of the things you mention are like he has but it also makes me wonder if he had either PDA & or ADHD as well. It's a hard road getting a diagnosis & I felt like I was banging my head on a brick wall at times, at every stage you need to be pushing for the next stage, when you have speech & language reports, then you need the educational psychologist report, plus you need to see a neuro disability consultant. Your son may find the classroom with 29 other children too stimulating, the noise, bright lights, people moving around, does he come home in complete meltdown? If you can get an EHCP you may find that it will state he needs a specialist school where classes are smaller, this doesn't mean that he in unable to learn, just that the environment & stimulation of an ordinary school isn't the right place for him. You will find that you have to fight for everything that your son needs, once you get a diagnosis, get in touch with support groups they give excellent advice & can help with getting funding for specialist school places, claiming disability benefits, putting you in touch with other parents who have similar children who very often can help guide you through the process of school places, specialist learning material etc better than the professionals.

This just makes me so sad. The reason your son is being excluded is because the school has not put adequate procedures and help in place. He has been failed. He needs a 1:1 TA. You don’t have to wait for an EHCP - they should be applying for emergency funding - have they? There is £2k per term that they can ask for, for a child in this situation. Ask them if they have applied for it? And why hasn’t an EHCP already been applied for? I applied for one myself. They can’t wait until September - mine took 6 months to come through and then another 5 months to get an appeal date.

Good luck with the appt today op.

I don't think it's fair for anyone to blame the OP or the school. It's a very difficult situation and we're working in a time of decreasing budgets and resources. It's not as simple as some people seem to think.

He needs a 1:1 TA. You don’t have to wait for an EHCP - they should be applying for emergency funding - have they? There is £2k per term that they can ask for, for a child in this situation.

2k per term does not fund a 1:1 TA.

The OP sounds like she is needing support from external agencies beside the issues with her son so applying for an EHCP may be too much for her personally right now.

The school sound like they have tried to sort things and use different strategies. Part of applying for an EHCP for alternative provision includes documenting everything the school has tried to do and hasn't worked. The more evidence of this, the more likely AP is.

I’m glad he’s being properly assessed but what are you doing to address his violent behaviour? It’s entirely unacceptable to hit a member of staff and his mother. It needs managing now before he’s big enough to do real damage.
Children with SEN can be naughty too:They need clear boundaries just like any other children. Perfectly reasonable to avoid high stress situations but if he’s going to remain in mainstream education he needs to be accepted whilst his behaviour is not tolerated.

I don't think it's fair for anyone to blame the OP or the school. It's a very difficult situation and we're working in a time of decreasing budgets and resources. It's not as simple as some people seem to think.

I agree completely. Unfortunately schools cannot magic up money or staff from nowhere. There is often a 'they just have to deal with it' when it can be a quite impossible situation sometimes. My own DN's tiny village school had two members of staff off with stress, my sister is sure it was because he was so difficult to deal with in class. The SENDCo was constantly hitting a brick wall with the local authority, as was my sister. It was a dreadful situation for everyone; my poor nephew, my sister, the staff and the other pupils.

OP, this must be so hard for you.

Have you read the Red Beast with him? My ds4 used to have the most awful violent outbursts at this age. He would trash the house, lash out, punch, kick, bite, hit people with books etc. It was because he couldn't handle his emotions or frustration. He has asd and is selectively mute so the violence was his way of dealing with things.
We worked hard on it. Breathing exercises, a box of sensory distrActions like bubble wrapped, play dough and stress balls, a pop up tent that he could hide in all helped. But it was this book, and a couple of others, that helped him spot the warning signs.

I agree with Nat. The whole classroom situation could very well be too much for him. My ds2, also autistic, couldn't cope with a class environment. The lights were too bright, the desks too brightly coloured, there was too much movement and the constant low level noise hurt his ears.
I eventually withdrew all of my children from school and home educated them because the school could just not give them the support they needed.

It sounds like he's in survival mode and using his reptilian brain rather than his logic.

I would suggest having a look into PACE. it's a different way of parenting but it works.

If he isn't accessing his logic brain then punitive measure won't work as he won't link the action with the punishment and therefore won't learn from it.

Consequences should be as natural or logical as possible so that he link action with consequence. Ie if he hits you then you can't do xyz because your arm (or wherever he hit you) hurts to much. This should be accompanied by a very firm we do not hit in this house.

Very tight boundaries so there is no room for manoeuvre or manipulation, and the same consequence should happen every single time even if it makes things awkward for you. This actually makes children feel safe as they know exactly where they stand.

I parent two adopted children who have very similar issues to your. My daughter actually had eleven fixed time exclusions and was very close to going to a PRU.

PACE has probably stopped a disruption. She still has plenty of issues and we struggle but I don't lose my shit anymore. I am consistent and firm and she knows what to expect.

If you want to know anymore please pm me x

Thank you for your messages.
Yes it's been hard and still hard going
I have to be constantly ready to de-escalate situations.

The appointment was ok, the senco was really good, giving schools point of view of him, my dad and stepmum came too.
The paediatrician said he think it is Autism but wants to see him in 4-6 months and see how he copes in Year 2 for a few months, and have autism assessments in school.setting.
I have also been referred to sleep clinic nurses to try to get his sleep sorted. He would stay up all night if he could.

I kinda feel now like it's a case of just him being naughty and not autistic or anything and that I have completely lost how to parent him and it's the way he is.

But the paediatrician said he wants to also see the finalised sensory processing report before making a diagnosis as the school are currently seeing to that at the moment.

The senco said that support will have to be put in place for September for him and a number of other students going up to year 2. The school are applying for ehcp but I dont know when that will actually go in, I think it will be September.

Thank you.

will he be doing the ADOS assessment?
Ds is autistic (not violent).
Ds has always struggled with the school environment. Up to and including yr 4 he had a 1:1 TA and that really helped. But funding cuts have meant instead of his TA with him all day, he only had a TA sometimes. Hence since yr 5 hes really struggled . He is now yr 7 and we arbout to pull him out of mainstream altogether and home school. The secondary school HAVE tried anything and everything to help him cope with the school environment. But dh and me are now realising its not working. Ds won`t be returning to year 8. We are going to use an internet school.

OP you`re in the rabbit hole at the moment and it sucks! We are seeing a light at the end of the tunnel now.xx

OP its great that the school sendco came to the appointment! shows theyre trying to get things in motion. Look up getting DLA/ carers allowance. You dont need the actual diagnosis to get it.

wellbuggerme yes it feels like I'm in a rabbit hole with no way of getting out. Its not that I dont want him to be seen as a label but having a diagnosis of why he is like he is would help then I know what I'm dealing with.

He is always taking out of class to the calm room but now he is on partial timetable he is not in class for those 2 hours. He is currently with a 1-1 for those two hours but he isnt getting the education he deserves by not being in school for the full time he should be and I fear it's going to set him back which is what I do not want. He is a very bright boy and all teachers and senco has said this but I feel hes going to not meet his ARE if he continues to be excluded or isolated from the rest of the class.

wellbuggerme
He gets MRC and LRM and I claim carers.
I had to quit my job because of the exclusions as I had no one for him whilst I was at work.

Sorry what's the ADOS assessment?

OP has the process for applying
For an EHCP been explained to you?

You can push for a second opinion and Camhs referral if you feel the paediatrician is not listening. Speak to your GP

CAMHs referral has been in since Feb. Originally I went to GP at schools request for CAMHs.
1 month later school.rang for an update as to see when assessment would be etc and they never received the referral. Spoke to GP who said he told me to self refer, he didnt he told me to self refer to children's first hub which I did.
So school sent off the CAMHs referral in February. He is on the waiting list but not heard anything at all from them.
SEMHs are involved aswell as CIAT and CFIT, also Ed Pysch is working in school with him too.

No. Just that ehcp can take up to 20 weeks all together and that it is a long process that needs evidence. But apparently his school wont apply for one if they dont think they'll get one so they must have good reason to think he will get an ehcp.

Autistic diagnosis observation schedule

Its an assessment ds had bfore he was officially diagnosed. when he had his done (was done through play at age 5) it was by a speech therapist and child psychologist.

where we had it done was in a playroom. next to that was smaller room with a 2 way mirror and micrphone, so dp and me could watch and hear. ds was alone with the assessors. it`s really interesting! we were given a full copy of the report after and it does assess detail even including intonation of speech.

The class see him as the naughty one and no one wants to play with him. He says he wants to play with certain children but they're scared of him

This makes me saddest. ☹️

I haven’t been in your situation and have no idea how to ensure the school does what you need but I wanted to share a story with you.

A child joined DDs class (aged 10) having been excluded from two schools previously.
He was immediately known as a naughty boy with anger issues and at first the class kept their distance. When DD spoke of him she felt really bad that they were being so mean to him so she decided to be his friend. She became his cheerleader, letting the other kids know he was actually a really nice boy, defending him whenever she heard others being mean. She spotted when he was becoming agitated, usually when he messed up his work, and tried to calm him down. He was invited to her birthday this year, and he really is a lovely boy. Apparently it’s the first invite he’s had since nursery.

The school uses a whole lot of different strategies to help him and despite a really rocky start with some violent outbursts, he has just completed the year and is now a really popular boy in class with very few issues with behaviour. He does have some SEN but I don’t know exactly what.

It goes to show that with the right help and support, children like yours can have a far better school experience. I really do hope you get the help you need for him.