Excluded from school. Year 1 aged 6.

[ItsTheGinTalking]

I have posted in SN children but feel there may be more traffic here
Also if you feel this shouldn't be here do delete it MN as I've posted in SN. Thank you

Hi everyone
Been a while since I posted on MN. But I've never posted in this group before.
My 6 yr old child is struggling at school socially. He has a referral to cahms in, referral to Educational Pyschologist, Community Peadiateician, CFIT and a few others
He hits other children, kicks, nips, shouts.
This started at the back end of reception class. I noticed stuff at home and mentioned to school but because he didn't show the behaviour they didn't say or do anything.

Now he is terrorising the class. He has an IEP in place and does anger management with WESAIL through the local council.

Academically he is doing well and is on year 2 reading books, is brilliant at his maths and spelling. But socially is where he lets himself down as school say.

He prefers 1-1 support so will do something in class that gets him removed because he likes to sit in the headteacher or the deputy heads office because it's quiet and he has that 1-1 support.

He prefers adult company and has said many times he's hates other kids especially his age or younger.
He has been brought up with older brothers and adults.

On Friday at 2.25 I got a phone call to say could I go to school asap...He has been excluded for 1.5 days and is not allowed back till Tuesday as the 1.5 has been included with Friday

I have a reintergrating meeting at 3.15 on Tuesday when I collect him. But is there anything I need to ask or question?

TIA

In the past many kids who are diagnosed as autistic did not go to specialist schools. Many children diagnosed today would not once have been diagnosed with autism

These children may have been sent to special school for behavioural or emotional problems if they couldn't cope in mainstream. As this was a thing then. In fact we still have special schools for social, emotional and mental health probs in my city (although most children will have a diagnosis of ASD, ADHD or attachment disorder).

Wow. Have skipped most if the comments to join in to give you a ta’s perspective

I have come across challenging students in year 1. This year we have a young man who sounds very similar to your son.
He is academically the brightest in the class but he is also the most complex.
He self harms if he feels embarrassed and that can be triggered by things that wouldn’t embarrass anyone else.
He vocalises his inner monologue most of the time and it is a dark and negative narrative.
If he is gently asked to think about his choices he has been known to stuff his hands down his throat until he vomits as he is trying to remove his voice box so he can be quiet.
He hits us punches us and snots/phlegms in our faces.

I have so much love and affection for him. The teacher and I are doing everything we can to find him support. We have filled in forms we have had meetings. He had never been excluded for his behaviour.

However, I am off next week for an unavoidable appointment there will be a TA from a different class in there and if she decides she has a right to feel safe at work and wants him to be excluded for hurting her I could understand her point of view.

Good luck. You are in a great position of knowing there is support needed now. You have time. Sounds like your son has lots to give the world.

Oh, @strumpersplunkett you are so in the right job.

@gutrotweins no he doesn't cope well at break times.

He prefers smaller groups than large class groups.

I have decided I'm going to tell work tomorrow that I need to have Tuesday off cos I can go to his meeting at 9am before he goes to school rather than at the end of the day because I need to know what's what.

He's such a lovely little boy and very loving but he is so unpredictable.
He does and he doesn't get on with his brothers...some days are better than others but one of his brothers knows how to wind him up, which does not help at all.

OP, I can’t add too much. Except to tell you that 15 years ago I was in your position.

DS1 was sent to a Special School in Year 1 & transferred back into mainstream in Year 7. Due only to the complete determination & amazing ability of his 1:1 TA did he stay in mainstream right through to age 16.

He was diagnosed with Aspergers at 14. He was severely depressed until 18. Now at 21 he works full time & is a completely different person.

DS1’s issue has always been complying to social norms. At 5 this made him “distruptive”. At 11 this made him “trouble”. At 16 this made him “obnoxious”. At 21 it makes him “individual”.

To cut a long story very short, I was told that my 5 year old would amount to nothing. At 21 he is the youngest person ever to have been given a full time permanent contract at his place of work.

If your DS has Aspergers OP, he may never conform as such. But he will find his place in the world. And in that place he will excel above all others.

When you go in for the meeting, make it clear you want to know what they did to de - escalate the situation. What recent training have they had in “team teach” and other de-escalation techniques. How are they making reasonable adjustments in case he has autism (remember you don’t actually have to have a diagnosis)? Did the hit come out of nowhere? Was it brewing? Are you being told every time there is an incident? If not, you want them to do this. Has SENCo had specific training on dealing with autism? How many other children In the school have EHCPs?

Your child is so young. There is more compassion in the criminal justice system than in some schools. I also know a huge number of psychologists and psychiatrists just don’t believe in exclusions for primary schools.

Your son is NOT naughty - just trying to tell someone he can’t cope.

Thinking of you.

What a heat warming post Coffee.

Heart warming!!

@yellowsun I was replying to a poster who had said, “So he has no diagnosis? You need to push that.”

Surely the environment, behaviour and child’s viewpoint need to be thoroughly explored before the call for “a diagnosis.” Maybe I am wrong!

Interesting to note from another thread that Luna's much-vaunted education experience is limited to work as an Admin Assistant in a primary school. So much for her hands-on experience of teaching children.

He punched a member of staff, who was helping him, in the face. A temporary exclusion sounds like an appropriate punishment, even taking into account his young age, as they have to safeguard both pupils and staff. To me, it sounds very positive that he’s aware of the gravity of what he has done. As others have said, request and EHC Plan and make it clear that both you and your son want to move forward and improve his behaviour. Do you have a reward system for him at home? Treats if he manages to stay calm?

Are you sure that mainstream school is the right place for him, Gin?

If he’s hurting himself because he hurts other children then they’re all suffering physically, as well as mentally.

The idea of kids screaming in his face because they know it gets to him makes me so sad for him. What, if anything, is being done about that??

Would a school more suited to his needs not be better for him?

*I have no idea if it would or not so I’m probably being quite dense!

*an EHC Plan.

@LunafortJest wow. Just wow. As an ex head teacher of a PRU I've never read anything so full of anger. Did no one understand your behaviour as a child? I think you're trying to communicate that you weren't listened to as a child.

OP diagnosis will get you the funding for the support. Don't worry too much about what they dx. What matters is that his support works for him.

At home have a go with PECs & a feeling thermometer. Give the schools copies and get everyone on a united front. Good luck!

Thank you for all your input I have made notes to take with me into the meeting.

IvanaPee

Where do you think these special schools placements are? They only take the worst cases usually based on lack of attainment and OP said her child is bright

I don’t think they’re anywhere. OP didn’t mention ever having looked into it, so I asked the question. I asked OP the question...

A school more suited to his needs would be lovely.
There might be one somewhere in the country. It might be at the other end of the country and he'll probably need an EHCP naming it to access it. The LA won't want to pay for it so the OP might have to go to tribunal to access it with an EHCP.

Do you have a reward system for him at home? Treats if he manages to stay calm?

Those are not techniques that work with ASD type difficulties, which sounds very much as if OP's son has - particularly if it is also PDA. Offering treats which a child may not get simply causes further anxiety, and managing to stay calm may realistically only be possible if his sensory and communication difficulties are fully met.

The use of cardboard around the workstation sounds ideal, if your ds knows he cannot be seen by the other pupils he may feel more open to using the headphones. A traffic light system where the child can indicate to the teacher/TA how he is feeling, ie, green for calm, amber for increasing stress, etc, then the situation can be deescalated before it reaches trigger point. Placing child at the end of rows; allowing them to go first or last in the line; allowing them to sit somewhere quiet and serene for stressful events like lunchtimes, all can make significant differences to how well a child can cope.

Blaming a child for failing to cope is like blaming a saucepan for boiling over when the heat has been turned up. Of course nobody is saying hitting people is OK, nobody thinks "oh that's okay". What they should be taking from this is "how can we avoid this happening again".

My ds had an IEP for a while in infants, it was pointed out in a meeting with Outreach that he should really be on a SCIP as ds's academic progress was fine, but he needed the help for his Social Communication difficulties. So this was amended, although nothing really changed in concrete terms, it was deemed a more appropriate term. I hope the school meeting goes well for you OP.

It's also worth noting that because your child is bright, they will think of him as more capable and think he shouldn't do such things and should be able to tell an adult when something goes wrong or tell an adult when he's bubbling over but in reality, he probably doesn't have the skills yet.

Our school put 50 million strategies in place from anger boxes, traffic lights, laminated cards, keychains and more but none of them worked (which they saw as his fault because he should be able to use them) when in actual fact, he couldn't even recognise a simple shift in his own feelings and didn't even know how to name his feelings yet even simple basic ones let alone the widely complicated ones. A year later he's better at understanding feelings but still can't use any of those strategies. For him (profoundly gifted) his social and emotional development is massively delayed - and that is not his fault.

Is your son into mine craft yet?
I did a 5 point scale for ds based on this (which I got idea of from online). It helped him relate emotions to things he was interested in.
Happy/sad etc meant nothing to him at that age.

Yes, work with the school, but the parent should show the initiative, it is their child, after all

It sounds like the school could do a lot more. Take firm action against the other kids for deliberately provoking him, for example. It wouldn't matter if he had SEN or not, bullying needs to be dealt with pronto.

Luna, in your day these kids would have been in specialist provision. And "bad parenting" isn't a thing. We ARE parents, we do not parent. I hate the use of "parent" as a verb. And I also think the way kids behave in school has very little to do with their upbringing. School is a very different environment to home, and kids behave completely differently. We also expect kids to turn the other cheek to behaviour that would never be tolerated in (most) workplaces.

It's also worth noting that because your child is bright, they will think of him as more capable and think he shouldn't do such things and should be able to tell an adult when something goes wrong or tell an adult when he's bubbling over but in reality, he probably doesn't have the skills yet

Completely agree with this - a lot of school staff seem to struggle with the notion that you can be bright but have a hot temper, for example. They seem to be conditioned to think that poor behaviour goes hand in hand with poor achievement.

Hi. Sorry for never coming back to this thread that I started. It's been 3 months now since the first exclusion and we are on 6.5 days exclusions up to press.
His last exclusion was 2 weeks back. The first day back on the Monday I was called at 12.50 asking to go collect him.

He was then put on a partial timetable so now is only in school for 2 hours on a morning. This will gradually increase weekly by 15 mins. Until the end of term.

We have our paediatrician appointment tomorrow at hospital and the school SENCo is meeting me there, she is bringing along my sons folder with her which contains all the exclusions and ABC forms.

CAF meetings are in place and his IEP has been updated to a My support plan, but school are now applying for an EHCP for him...I think this will go in in September.

Just thought I would update you all.

Feeling stressed and frustrated. Hoping the paediatrician just doesnt say there is nothing wrong with him and it's all in my head and he is just naughty....although sendiass who are involved have mentioned PDA.

Thank you for all your kind words.