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Original poster

Excluded from school. Year 1 aged 6.

227 replies

ItsTheGinTalking · 10/03/2019 10:37

I have posted in SN children but feel there may be more traffic here
Also if you feel this shouldn't be here do delete it MN as I've posted in SN. Thank you

Hi everyone
Been a while since I posted on MN. But I've never posted in this group before.
My 6 yr old child is struggling at school socially. He has a referral to cahms in, referral to Educational Pyschologist, Community Peadiateician, CFIT and a few others
He hits other children, kicks, nips, shouts.
This started at the back end of reception class. I noticed stuff at home and mentioned to school but because he didn't show the behaviour they didn't say or do anything.

Now he is terrorising the class. He has an IEP in place and does anger management with WESAIL through the local council.

Academically he is doing well and is on year 2 reading books, is brilliant at his maths and spelling. But socially is where he lets himself down as school say.

He prefers 1-1 support so will do something in class that gets him removed because he likes to sit in the headteacher or the deputy heads office because it's quiet and he has that 1-1 support.

He prefers adult company and has said many times he's hates other kids especially his age or younger.
He has been brought up with older brothers and adults.

On Friday at 2.25 I got a phone call to say could I go to school asap...He has been excluded for 1.5 days and is not allowed back till Tuesday as the 1.5 has been included with Friday

I have a reintergrating meeting at 3.15 on Tuesday when I collect him. But is there anything I need to ask or question?

TIA

OP posts:
Original poster
ItsTheGinTalking · 10/03/2019 11:37

He does not get rewarded for good behaviour.
We have been separated since he was 2 and he knows no different.
He gets 1-1 time with both of us.

I have children's first hub working with us who have sorted out a CAF. So a CAF is in place.

OP posts:
Original poster
ItsTheGinTalking · 10/03/2019 11:39

He wear a ear defenders at school when class is loud. He also self harms when he has hurt someone he hurts himself back as he has said his brain tells him he has to hurt himself to say sorry for hurting someone else. So @Coronapop it's not a label he needs...it's a mental health assessment and my little boy to giving the help he needs.

OP posts:
QuirkyQuark · 10/03/2019 11:41

Have a read about PDA, it's a subset of autism and a few things you've said made me think of it.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

6 year olds Families General education Primary education
CheesecakeAddict · 10/03/2019 11:42

Good luck in the meeting.
Ehcps take a lot time and they are so inundated you have to be ringing up the service team daily otherwise they will prioritise other cases. You also need to be prepared for this to go to tribunal. You are going to have to fight and you need to mentally prepare yourself.

However you need to think about things here:
You say he prefers 1 to 1 and an ehcp would potentially give him the funding for his own TA , but it would not get him 1 to 1 tuition (as in from an actual qualified teacher) so would still need to remain part of the class for the same amount of time he is now. Is mainstream the best place for him?

In addition to the ehcp I would also ask if there are any nurture groups or something he could join. I know in many schools I've worked in there has been at the very least a group for asd kids to teach them how to socialise. It may not be completely relevant but it might give him a better understanding of his feelings and create new strategies for when he is feeling overwhelmed

Original poster
ItsTheGinTalking · 10/03/2019 11:42

I have read about PDA but no one will listen until he's had that first appointment at CAHMS.

OP posts:
Nancy74 · 10/03/2019 11:47

You do not need to pay for a private EP. A EHCPNA is short for an EHCP needs assessment. Your son urgently needs to be referred for assessment as the current setting is inadequate to meet his needs. You or the school can refer him and the bar is low. Please see the IPSEA website and the section for EHCP assessment for more details, but from what you've said he fits the criteria. The first is if he has or may have a SEN and the second part is whether he may need a SEN. Your son is on the SEN register and clearly has a SEN, and he is clearly needing assistance in order to meet his educational needs. The school will quite possibly tell you he will not get an EHCP. Please refer then to relevant legislation (all explained on IPSEA website) and explain you want the EHCP done. So many children are denied their rights because they accept what schools and La's say on face value. You need to arm yourself with knowledge. Once the application goes in the LA have 6 weeks to let you know if they will assess, they then have a further 10 weeks to get the assessments done (and that must include an EP which is why I'm saying you don't need to pay) and then there's 4 weeks to finalise the EHCP. That's 20 weeks which is a legal time line they must stick too. If the school are being unhelpful there is nothing stopping you from applying yourself, but make sure you quote the legislation for assessing for EHCPs. Happy to PM if you need more help.

The advantage of an EHCP is its legally enforceable and may allow you to get your son into a specialist school. At the very least he needs a TA trained to deal with his needs.

Original poster
ItsTheGinTalking · 10/03/2019 11:48

@cheesecakeAddict my support worker from Children's first hub has referred him to go to nurture group at another local school after school on a Monday.
Which I'm more than happy for.him to go too.

The things is with DS he loves learning, he loves to learn new things and is like a sponge. But he struggles with he noises in class. He wears his ear defenders but if he sees anyone looking at him he takes them off because he thinks they make him look silly. He's academically doing very well and is in top sets for most things and his teacher has said sometimes before she's explained the sheets to them he has completed it, whether it be math English or phonics. He's obsessed with numbers and at the moment obsessed with spelling and will get angry if he only gets 3 out of 5 in his spellings.

OP posts:
Nancy74 · 10/03/2019 11:49

@Coronapop. I can only assume you don't have a child with special needs. What an ignorant, nasty thing to say.

yellowsun · 10/03/2019 11:50

So does he have 1:1 in school?

It sounds like they have put different strategies in place. School needs them to be helping him with his regulation - 5 point scale or zones of regulation maybe. Is there a safe space he can go to in the class? Does he need planned sensory breaks?

When he returns to school there should be a reintegration meeting with you both and the head or a member of SLT. They should have looked at the triggers to see if there is anything they need to change to reduce the risk of this happening again.

I agree that you need to request an education health and care plan needs assessment. There should be a local offer page for your local authority that will tell you how. You don’t need a diagnosis.

Original poster
ItsTheGinTalking · 10/03/2019 11:50

@Nancy74 I did not know that. Thank you I will take a look and print out and then I can make myself aware for the meeting on Tuesday. Thank you

OP posts:
QuirkyQuark · 10/03/2019 11:51

Gin you can apply for an ehcp yourself. And PDA isn't recognised by all LA's but it's worth starting to try parenting strategies using pda methods and see if they make a difference.

Nancy74 · 10/03/2019 11:51

OP. Have you considered your son has autism? It's leaping out the me as a parent of a child with autism.

Nancy74 · 10/03/2019 11:54

I'm very happy to speak via Pm if you want any help OP. I can point you to letter templates for applying for an EHCP and any guidance you might need throughout. Been there and worn the rshirt sadly.

yellowsun · 10/03/2019 11:55

Having read your updates- I would also suggest that he has a work station in the class. It sounds like he experiencing anxiety when being surrounded by other people, which is making it hard for him to regulate.

As Nancy has said, it does sound like he has many autistic traits (but obviously we can’t diagnose this over the internet!).

Sleepyblueocean · 10/03/2019 11:56

You need to be asking the school how they are going to support him in order to prevent further exclusions. I would be pushing for a ehcp and remember you can apply yourself and although local authorities may have there own rules about when a child can be assessed, the rules are not usually lawful.
Ipsea are a very good source of information on this.
Someone I know did have their child (with a diagnosis) permanently excluded aged 6 for the sort of thing you have described so I think it is important you push for support now and get acquainted with the law.

Darkbaptism · 10/03/2019 11:57

OP in my area it’s hard to get EHCPs but worth fighting for.
You may well be told that because he’s not behind academically you won’t get one and you also won’t get one because he doesn’t have a diagnosis. Neither of these statements are true but unfortunately some schools believe they are so you may have to work hard to get the school to support you or apply yourself.

yellowsun · 10/03/2019 11:59

I would also recommend speaking to your local Supportive Parents group. They will know the local issues around funding and EHCPs and can offer advice or support in person.

AornisHades · 10/03/2019 12:00

It's an Education and Health Care Needs Assessment which may lead to an Education and Health Care Plan. The Local Authority will provide the Ed Psych if they do the assessment. They may well refuse to assess, the statistics show they often do but there's a route to dispute that.
As said, you can request it yourself.

Original poster
ItsTheGinTalking · 10/03/2019 12:01

Yes he has a work station but it is literally just behind where he usually sits at the table so he is still surrounded by the children. He has a sensory box which he has destroyed. He also has a safe space he can go to...But I never hear them say that he spent time in there.
He doesn't like p.e but he's made to do it that's a trigger.
He hates dinnertime because he hates people eating with their mouth open or talking with their mouth full of food and that spreads germs he says and that's a trigger.
People getting in his face is a trigger, and some children in the class know this and do it purposely. I've seen them on a morning at drop off. He hates it.

He likes his space. He doesn't have his own 1-1 but they have a class TA who sits with him.at times and she is the one he hurt and he says he is sorry for this because he loves her.
It's all so sad. And many times I cry over it. But I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall.

OP posts:
AornisHades · 10/03/2019 12:02

And we have an EHCP in place for a child who's target grades are 9 at GCSE.

Hawkmoth · 10/03/2019 12:02

My son also used his own strategies to get out of a chaotic classroom. In his case it was shouting and swearing when he got overwhelmed.

His new school are much better at stopping him getting to that point but it's a full day of timetabled breaks, sensory interventions, careful watching etc.

It sounds like his school needs to be much more aware of what's upsetting and angering him, rather than waiting until he's already simmering.

Original poster
ItsTheGinTalking · 10/03/2019 12:05

The school keep mentioning about the ed pysch coming into school and they'll speak to them about my ds but nothing ever materialises. They tell me I'll have a form to fill out but nothing!! I really need to get my head out my arse and read legislation regarding education and my son's rights to a fare education without exclusion.
I know he can't go round hitting a d punching and I was abolsutlry mortified on Friday and cried on the way home.

OP posts:
Nancy74 · 10/03/2019 12:05

www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment take a look at this. I hasten to add, I don't work for IPSEA and ther are many other charities available. I've just used their help alot to get my child the help he needs and I'm on a 1 woman campaign to arm parents with the correct information. The amount of blatant lies told by schools and LAs is shocking. Do not accept anything they say without checking it first OP.

Not that's I'm at all bitter Grin

Hawkmoth · 10/03/2019 12:06

Cross posted because I was dealing with my own crisis there. Cant understand why they know the triggers but don't do what they can to minimise their impact.

We moved school this year, and one of the biggest positives for DS has been that his class didn't know his triggers, didn't find it funny to set him off and didn't see him as a 'naughty boy'. From having no friends, he's now just one of the class and so much happier.

yellowsun · 10/03/2019 12:08

There are definitely some reasonable adjustments they can make. You and school need to go through a timetable of the day and look at times of high anxiety. For example, can he go straight into school in the morning instead of lining up with the class? He could do his visual time table with the lsa. They need to look at his lunch provision. At my school, we have provision for children with social and emotional needs and who are autistic - they eat in a smaller room away from the bustle of the dinner hall. Some go out with additional adult support and some take part in different activities inside depending on their needs.

Look up the ‘coke bottle effect’- it sounds like this is what is happening.