Excluded from school. Year 1 aged 6.

[ItsTheGinTalking]

I have posted in SN children but feel there may be more traffic here
Also if you feel this shouldn't be here do delete it MN as I've posted in SN. Thank you

Hi everyone
Been a while since I posted on MN. But I've never posted in this group before.
My 6 yr old child is struggling at school socially. He has a referral to cahms in, referral to Educational Pyschologist, Community Peadiateician, CFIT and a few others
He hits other children, kicks, nips, shouts.
This started at the back end of reception class. I noticed stuff at home and mentioned to school but because he didn't show the behaviour they didn't say or do anything.

Now he is terrorising the class. He has an IEP in place and does anger management with WESAIL through the local council.

Academically he is doing well and is on year 2 reading books, is brilliant at his maths and spelling. But socially is where he lets himself down as school say.

He prefers 1-1 support so will do something in class that gets him removed because he likes to sit in the headteacher or the deputy heads office because it's quiet and he has that 1-1 support.

He prefers adult company and has said many times he's hates other kids especially his age or younger.
He has been brought up with older brothers and adults.

On Friday at 2.25 I got a phone call to say could I go to school asap...He has been excluded for 1.5 days and is not allowed back till Tuesday as the 1.5 has been included with Friday

I have a reintergrating meeting at 3.15 on Tuesday when I collect him. But is there anything I need to ask or question?

TIA

@Hels20 Are you telling me that you honestly believe a child should be able to go around punching TAs in the face, and have no consequences? Are you really, really serious? Wtf. Facepalm

I'm glad you said "When you worked in schools" So you are no longer there getting it all wrong.

Nancy- I know, they seem to try any way to not give a plan. We are nearly there with it now, thankfully.

@TheFallenMadonna 5 years. Suspension is temporary, usually for 3 days. Expulsion is being kicked out of the school permanently. Maybe it's just different language (I am in Australia) but I had never heard the world 'exclusion' used in a school setting on here. It is suspended, and then if the child gets repeated suspensions and their behaviour doesn't change, they are expelled. Meaning they have find another school to take them.

@Sockwomble So if your child punched someone in the face, you wouldn't feel embarrassed? You would be a-ok with that?

So, you worked in a completely different system then. When talking about schools in England, exclusion is the correct term. On here, or anywhere.

Luna - so you come on here correcting the OPs terminology when you don't even know what the terminology is, you just want to keep harassing her and telling her what a terrible parent who must be? FYI it's called fixed term exclusion here! I am very grateful you are not working here.

*she must be

I have a child with very challenging behaviour due to severe disability. I'm not ok with anyone getting hurt but no I don't feel embarrassed about it. We work with the school as equal partners to support our child which is as it should be.

You are forgetting the child’s age, the fact that the child is presenting with SEN. If the school hasn’t made reasonable adjustments and tried to anticipate the needs - then yes. The school has failed if the child suddenly explodes.

Maybe you have less empathy in australia for SEN children. Maybe your laws are different.

@PotteringAlong what diagnosis do you think he needs?! Absolutely crazy the rush to medicalise a 6 year old!

Behaviour is communication - what is he trying to communicate with this behaviour? Is he anxious, worried, upset, bullied?

Diagnosis - as if!

I worry about the huge increase in exclusions - usually for our most vulnerable. Schools have no money because budgets have been cut.

I know of a child who head butted another child in Year 4. The victim lost a milk tooth. The perpetrator lost playtime for 2 weeks and then spent a term spending time with SENCo every week. I think that’s a better approach than excluding. Excluding is an awful message of rejection for primary school children. The behaviour is not ok but we will help you manage that. That is a much better approach surely.

Luna - am never embarrassed by my disabled son, or his behaviour. I am not embarrassed by having a disabled child and all the none typical things he might do. And the OP's terminology is completely correct. You are wrong to correct her.

Who has mentioned medication? A diagnosis is about understanding need. Why is that unreasonable?

I don't see what difference the age makes, and the OP has said the child has not been diagnosed yet so you are assuming they have SEN.

And it is so interesting that everyone puts the onus on the school to sort out something. These days teachers are expected to be parents as well, and parents expect them to do everything. Yes, work with the school, but the parent should show the initiative, it is their child, after all.

I remember parents of children with SEN feeling embarrassed about their children assaulting others. One would think that is a normal feeling. SEN or not, I would be mortified. I can easily tell the type of parents on here just by their responses. Those that genuinely don't feel bothered about their child punching adults in the face and get defensive, blame the school for not catering to their child, etc, mostly it is not SEN in those cases it is just as I said. I found the parents who did have SEN were grateful to the school, supported them, bent over backwards to work with and support and back up the school, didn't expect the school to change everything to accommodate them, and didn't throw a 'my child is an angel' strop. I am just saying that there was a difference between the attitudes of the parents children who received no boundaries, guidance or discipline, and those who had genuine SEN.

I work in a unit within a school with children who sound very similar to your DS. Some things we have done for similar children:

5 point anger scale to try to stop him/get him to recognise his feelings before he reaches a 5.

Closed desk - we made a 'fort' from cardboard around one child's desk so he couldn't see the other children and they couldn't see him. That, combined with ear defenders, meant he was only concentrating on his work.

Thrive. Essentially love-bombing and recognising feelings.

Yes to Ed Psych, also see if your LA has a Complex Communications Needs Team. Schools can request (pay for) an assessment from CCN/Autism specialists who are qualified to say that traits exist, to give suggestions and advice and help provide reports to parents and schools to get kids on the pathway for diagnosis.

Pastoral Support Plans are invaluable, they ensure all the adults are on the same page, they could include things like later starts to avoid the morning rush, going home for lunch if that would help, alternative curriculum, punctuated timetable etc. But getting it formalised so everyone follows the same plan is the important part - it's like an IEP but more direct.

Treats, sticker charts etc leading up to a 'big' prize. We've done coin jars as well where a child can 'buy' a treat or save up for a bigger treat (things like computer time, extra break, time with a favourite adult)

Check if your area has a specialist behaviour team (usually working with PRUs etc). You can find them on the Internet and ask for school to use them.

Plus, be a pain in the arse. Constantly chase up doctors appts, CAMHS etc. Our best parents are the ones who never give up, push for help and take everything that is offered.

We have a great record for EHCPs but the hardest ones to get are the SEMH ones. What helped were appendices that showed: every single behaviour/anxiety incident recorded on SIMS, a colour coded calendar of incidents including upset/self harm/anxiety as well as violence/anger, proof of every single thing the school has done for your child, proof of everything you have done for your child.

I.will.post again that not all.schools are like this. My DS showed this sort of behaviour regularly throughout primary school . The fantastic head teacher never mentioned exclusions. I asked her where we might get to that. She said in her ( considerable) experience, if by year 5 children with DS:s behaviour problems(ASD and ADHD diagnosis at 7) had not improved then the outlook was not great but that she had seen some children turn this around. It usually took years rather than months though.

By year 5 he had improved significantly. Still not.perfect but much better. He is now 14 and in mainstream school and is not violent at all any more. He still.gets upset and freezes sometimes and does silly things but none of them are aggression based.

DS had a fantastic TA throughout primary. She was hurt by ds quite a lot but maintained a.really positive attitude to.him.and still asks about him fondly now if I.see her in town.

It is possible to change this sort of behaviour but it CANNOT be done by using exclusions as children are not generally doing this stuff because they want to but because they are not yet in control of themselves. Exclusion does nothing to change this.

I tell my story quote.often as I like to counteract that idea that of course an exclusion is appropriate other wise how will the child learn. Well.ds did learn very well.and was never excluded once despite some very provoking incidents. Op your school is.NOT a good.one for.SEN despite the Ofsted report.

Luna you're getting needlessly nasty here. Nobody has said punching the TA is fine but they recognise the signs of a child under stress and are suggesting next steps. To avoid anyone being punched again and support the child.

bumblingbovine49

Oh dear, I feel you don’t understand the system. Exclusion isn’t a punishment and it’s nit meant to teach the child a lesson on behaviour

It’s there to flag up to the department that there is a child in need of greater assistance and help, it’s there to kick start additional help for the school and the child

Sometimes excluding a child can help get the support they need, particularly at such a young age.
It may be that it can be used to show that he needs further support than he currently has.

Luna I don't think disability is something to be ashamed of or mortified about.

@AornisHades But is it signs of stress? Or just a naughty child. I see people bending over backwards to excuse behaviour in children that would never, ever, ever have been tolerated when I was a child, or in my parent's generation. Signs of stress suggestion would be scoffed at. I can't just punch someone in the face and claim stress. I'd be charged with assault. I feel like we make more and more excuses for bad behaviour and bad parenting with each generation. If they punch someone in the face it can't be because they are just badly behaved, they have to have someone wrong with them. There has to be a label or excuse, when sometimes the simplest answer is the most honest and obvious answer.

Have a look at Ace Education - really good for getting advice and support

www.ace-ed.org.uk/advice-about-education-for-parents/special_educational_needs?4d282ccc-743f-4755-8ee5-dd58e14b344b

www.ace-ed.org.uk/advice-about-education-for-parents

You LA should have a parent support/advocacy service as well - often listed under their local offer - these can support you through the EHCP Process

@ItsTheGinTalking I have no experience at all of what you are going through, but just wanted to say you sound like a wonderful mum, and I hope things work out for you and your son in the long run. Some for you both.