Excluded from school. Year 1 aged 6.

[ItsTheGinTalking]

I have posted in SN children but feel there may be more traffic here
Also if you feel this shouldn't be here do delete it MN as I've posted in SN. Thank you

Hi everyone
Been a while since I posted on MN. But I've never posted in this group before.
My 6 yr old child is struggling at school socially. He has a referral to cahms in, referral to Educational Pyschologist, Community Peadiateician, CFIT and a few others
He hits other children, kicks, nips, shouts.
This started at the back end of reception class. I noticed stuff at home and mentioned to school but because he didn't show the behaviour they didn't say or do anything.

Now he is terrorising the class. He has an IEP in place and does anger management with WESAIL through the local council.

Academically he is doing well and is on year 2 reading books, is brilliant at his maths and spelling. But socially is where he lets himself down as school say.

He prefers 1-1 support so will do something in class that gets him removed because he likes to sit in the headteacher or the deputy heads office because it's quiet and he has that 1-1 support.

He prefers adult company and has said many times he's hates other kids especially his age or younger.
He has been brought up with older brothers and adults.

On Friday at 2.25 I got a phone call to say could I go to school asap...He has been excluded for 1.5 days and is not allowed back till Tuesday as the 1.5 has been included with Friday

I have a reintergrating meeting at 3.15 on Tuesday when I collect him. But is there anything I need to ask or question?

TIA

So sorry you are going through this. As pp have said sounds like you will need to be a strong advocate for your ds to help him get the support he needs. Please take a look at this charity site

www.cerebra.org.uk/help-and-information/guides-for-parents/

They have a guide there on accessing public services support for dc. You may find it helpful.

He does sound like he needs an EHCP assessment. Your local sendias / ias/ parent partnership service should be able to help fill in a request or use the open letters on Ipsea but you will need to include all evidence you can find.

Incidentally PDA, preferably called EDA, as in extreme not pathological, is not a "subset" of autism. It's a dimension of autism, which occurs in severely anxious children and must be viewed within context rather than as an immutable "within child" thing. The anxiety is part of the autism but the context and circumstances are important too.

See recent paper by Green et al in the Lancet late last year.

The class see him as the naughty one and no one wants to play with him. He says he wants to play with certain children but they're scared of him 😢

I'm gunna spend my evening tonight reading and printing because I've got a brownie event today...as well dealing with 3 of my own kids I help out at a Brownie group too!! But I am deffo going to look into this more and @Nancy74 I will PM you later. Thank you xx

Personally I would insist they have a reintegration meeting before he is reintegrated.

Otherwise what will be different Tuesday for him than before to support him?

At the meeting (Record it which you allowed to do - and then write detailed minutes) ask specific questions.

•what date is ed psych assessing (don't request or ask for it - show you know they have to do it)
•how much 1:1 does he have. When did you apply for high needs fundjng for more? When will they start?
•what system is in place for him to access time out? Who does what and says what when they notice him becoming overwhelmed?
•what have abcc charts shown as possible triggers?

Also just as an aside it isn't "team teached out". team teach us just 1 of some of the training courses provided for risk restraint reduction. It teaches the 95% (risk reduction) and then when this fails the safe holds and body mechanics for restrictive physical intervention.

My support worker has contacted sendiass to support. So that's good.
Right I'm am going out now but will be back later to read replies. Thank you you are really helping me out as some of the information you have giving me i did not know Thank you

i had this at primary OP. School fobbed me off repeatedly. dont let them do that. You should have a local parent hub or similar with impartial advice for dealing with the needs of SEN kids and arranging ECHP. Find out who, where they are and get an appointment made ASAP. they will be your back up.

I am also happy for you to PM me if you want any advice from a school perspective. Or would like me to do any digging about how your authority works etc.

Look at ‘circle of friends’. School need to be trying to help with relationships too.

@EveryYouEveryMe I am working with children's first hub who are being very good. I'm going to speak to my support worker tomorrow and tell her how I want to move forward to an ehcp.

There was a case last year where the mother of a 13 year old successfully challenged a 1.5 day exclusion her son was given for hitting a teacher with a ruler. The judge ruled that the child didn’t choose to hit; he had no choice. It was because of his autism.

Schools use exclusions to get difficult to manage children off their roll. In your position I would be calling sos! Sen or getting legal advice. Many exclusions are unlawful.

Voice your concerns to CAHMS if you think the school are trying to get rid of him - they may be able to act as a mediator.

Do you and his dad get on? Is it possible for him to attend the meeting on Tuesday as well? It is good if you can both be on the same page.

As a Parent Governor I sat on a Permanent Exclusion panel. The amount of paperwork I was given to look at was phenomenal. This paperwork not only detailed the actions of the child, but more importantly the actions of the school, the interventions made and the numerous agencies involved.

It showed a school has to show they have done all they can before permanently excluding a child.

The policies in respect of this should be on the school’s website.

I don’t think we need to assume that the school are trying to ‘get him out’ as they have clearly tried lots of strategies- they haven’t found the best strategies for meeting his needs yet. We are not perfect and sometimes it can take time to find the best ways of supporting our children with SEND. Sometimes we think we’ve cracked it and their needs change or the strategies stop working. It doesn’t sound like they have been reisistant to trying to meet his needs so far. Clearly more needs to be done though.

I agree that you need to chase up the EP etc. In my authority, they have been taken up with EHCP needs assessments and I have struggled to get them to come out. I also have more than one child at crisis point yet have to prioritise who gets seem first.

However, this is your son and you need to go into school with the back up of knowing what you can expect legally and some idea of what you think might help. You are the advocate for your child.

I'd be asking the school what they have in place when they notice that he is simmering that will support him and de-escalate the situation as it's a bit late when he has already got to boiling point. A good teacher/TA who know the child will spot the signs way earlier than boiling point - I've had my brilliant TA come to me in the past and quietly say 'so and so is warming up a little' and we've both kept an extra eye and provided support.

Also what others have said about having the reintegration meeting before he goes back.

I also think it sounds like he has Autism. My youngest has high functioning Autism and lots of the things you have said sounds similar.
Does he have full 1-2-1? I think you have to kick the schools ass to get specialist support services in from the local councils education department. They also need to be starting the process to get him an EHCP. If they wont then you start it and tell them you will be doing this. Ipsea has some excellent resources for this.
You need to ask them what reasonable adjustments they are making for your son? I think as a minimum they need to stop the obvious triggers, PE and also eating in the hall. Neither of those things are rocket science to do and could easily be sorted. He needs time in his quiet space every day, when they can see he is getting anxious they need to take him out calmly and not let him get to the stage where he is lashing out. Your poor son and poor you. Having been there you have my understanding and sympathy.
Sendiass will hopefully help you to deal with the school as well. Does he have a referral in for an Autism assessment with Camhs?

To also add another side to the fixed term exclusion debate, I had an EHCP assessment refused due to the child having a reduction in the exclusions. You can’t win.

Your son has a right to a fair education but the class TA has a right to go to work without being punched in the face and the class have the right to go to school without seeing that sort of scary behaviour.

You sound like an excellent parent. You've tried a lot of things and you're doing research to help your son. Don't assume the school will just want to keep excluding. They had to exclude for that behaviour. There's no way the precedent could be set for other students that a child can punch a teacher and nothing happens. It doesn't mean they don't care or don't want him. Schools don't give up as easily as some people seem to assume.

I have a child in my class who just got an ehcp for very similar behaviour. No diagnosis and has had 4 days of exclusions. We're looking to use that extra funding for a 1:1 TA for them. Special school might also be an option if there's places now they have an ehcp.

It might be worth a little research into local special schools and pupil referral units, local support groups, ask the doctors for advice & the school nurse team. It sounds like he needs support for anxiety.

I would write him a note for PE every week if needs be. Is there somewhere he could go for lunchtime if the dining hall is too much? Could you/family member pick him up for lunch? If not, could he sit outside the dining hall somewhere to have time to relax more before the afternoon?

It sounds like he needs timetabled time in a very quiet place. Maybe twice in the morning and once in the afternoon. This is certainly something I would allow the child in my class. Does he have a visual timetable so he can see the end point of each session?

Best of luck. Keep working with the school. It'll be worth it in the end.

I've been through this exact same situation with my eldest, you have my sympathy.

Where are you? England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, N.ireland etc?

You say he has been referred to all all-the services you mentioned but who has be actually seen and how long as he been waiting?

Wow Luna, you have such an amazing understanding of special needs! I suggest you look up the word ‘equity’.

It is clear that he is just badly behaved, just a naughty boy who is allowed to get away with it. No way in the world would I ever allow my son to hit me!

If you took that attitude with a child who has special needs then you'd be escalating the situation rather than helping the child.

No he has no diagnosis.
No unfortunately I cannot afford to go private.
Claim dla for him you do not need a diagnosis and save the money up . We did that and saw Dr Keen pm me if you want.

When I worked in schools, the parents of children who had Special Educational Needs worked with us. But I have seen far too many undisciplined children and their parent was outraged any time their child was given detention or suspended. The OP sounds like she is not supportive of the school and doesn't understand that a boy punching a TA in the face is grounds for expulsion - forget suspension. The OP comes across, to me at least, as being indignant that their child has faced consequences. I've come across those types of parents. The vast majority of the time there is no issue with the child's needs, they are just enabled by their parents. As I said, genuine cases of SEN, the parent is apologetic, embarrassed, wants to work with the school, and supports the school's decisions. Not questions the school as if they are the ones in the wrong for suspending a violent child.

Wow Luna - what a post! A six year old being expelled for hitting a teacher. What a lovely way you must be bringing up your children. Teaching them all about equity, amending expectations for disabled children. Just wow.

You must be very blessed to always be surrounded by non SEN children. Lucky you.

Exclusion is the correct word. This is a fixed term exclusion. By expelled you mean permanent exclusion. How long is it since you worked in schools?

@yellowsun. That was not a lawful reason to deny your child an assessment of needs for an EHCP. There is only one legal test that should apply and its here www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

@LunaForJest. There are no words to convey how stupid you must be. Run along now.

LunafortJest I have a child with sen and I never feel embarrassed about my child's behaviour in school and my child's school would never expect me to be. I think your comment shows a lack of understanding and knowledge.