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Original poster

British IS girl has had her baby

395 replies

BrizzleMint · 17/02/2019 17:55

She's had her baby - a son.

Cabinet minister Jeremy Wright told BBC's Andrew Marr programme that the baby's nationality was "not straightforward".

The culture secretary, who was previously attorney general, said the first priority was establishing the health of her and her baby.

OP posts:
Jb291 · 17/02/2019 20:17

Why on earth should we concern ourselves with the fate of an unrepentant terrorist. She made her choice and now must live with it. Let her die in Syria and be forgotten. I don't want her back here spouting her treasonous bile and spreading poisonous radicalisation. She is a danger to our country and our people.

MadgeMidgerson · 17/02/2019 20:20

If she held British citizenship at the time of the baby’s birth the baby is entitled to British citizenship

Even if she’s evil

Even if you hate her

Even if whatever. It isn’t complicated or something that needs figuring out.

woodhill · 17/02/2019 20:23

As long as her family or a crowdfund pay and she shouldn't expect any financial help. Let her wonderful father support her financially- she has contributed nothing to the UK and I think that is the problem with many of these "British" citizens who are here to contribute nada but take and take

YouBumder · 17/02/2019 20:25

If she’s British I don’t see why the baby isn’t British.

I don’t think that it’s worth a massive operation to bring the baby back to the U.K. though. We’ve got no diplomatic relations with Syria. Same applies as applies to the mother, they have the right to be here but IMO that doesn’t extend to actively having to go out and get them from Syria. If mum and baby, or someone else gets baby to the Consulate in Turkey, fair enough.

MadgeMidgerson · 17/02/2019 20:29

I too wish we could strip citizenship by fiat and leave people stateless - I’d personally start with woodhill - but sadly it is contrary to international law

hey ho

CameliaCamelia · 17/02/2019 20:31

It would cost us thousands to get her out

Then thousands more to keep her when she's here

And a threat to the lives of people getting her out

So a cost of time/money/lives

Nah.

RoseAndRose · 17/02/2019 20:31

BBC report on what the family have said

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47260916

Today's update includes a statement from them via a solicitor published on Twitter:

'We the family of Shamima Begum have been informed that Shamima has given birth to her child, we understand that bithbshe and the baby are in good health. As yet we have not yet had direct contact with Shamima, we are hoping to establish communications with her soon so we can verify the above'

woodhill · 17/02/2019 20:32

Thanks MadgeSmile

CameliaCamelia · 17/02/2019 20:32

Oh, so they just want to speak to her about the birth.... nothing more. Sounds like they don't believe her

AppleKatie · 17/02/2019 20:33

This is a groomed , brainwashed, sexual abused child we are talking about. At 19 she is still very young. She should be allowed back, possible sent to prison depending on specific crimes. Her baby should be adopted in the UK.

This

The vitriol on this astounds me. Just because she says she has ‘no regrets’ or ‘wasn’t bothered by the things she saw’ of course she has/was. She is probably still terrified of repercussions. She is damaged possibly beyond repair.

Of course we shouldn’t be allowing her the freedom to commit more terrible acts. Of course we have a responsibility to protect others from her.

But compassion is one of the marks of civilisation.

HeyCarrieAnneWhatsYourGame · 17/02/2019 20:36

This is such a difficult situation to untangle, but personally I feel that we have a moral duty as a nation to let her back into the country because of child protection. She was groomed as a child after her father was radicalised: Prevent and the education and social services systems let her down when she was a child. And now that baby is legally British and we protect our children, don’t we? Or we are meant to. We are a nation who take great pride in our part in the Kindertransport and yet we are considering leaving that baby who is legally a citizen of this country to die of malnutrition in a refugee camp?

Yes, she did a terrible thing and should be prosecuted according to the laws of this land when she returns, and monitored incredibly closely perhaps for the rest of her life, but her child hasn’t done anything wrong and deserves a home and a life.

Newbuild · 17/02/2019 20:36

I do wonder, if it was a young bloke that went out to fight in isis, and he was ‘groomed’ by extremists, would anyone be supporting his return?

MamaDane · 17/02/2019 20:38

Why are people so eager to forgive her when they wouldn't do the same with school shooters or e.g. the Bever brothers?

The point is that she does not seem remorseful of what she has done, which is contributing to terrorism, let's be honest here. She is dangerous and I wouldn't want her in my country, unless it was behind bars indefinitely.

MamaDane · 17/02/2019 20:39

This is why England has so many terrorists and extremists in general. You're too tolerant of these people who mean you harm.

findingmyfeet12 · 17/02/2019 20:43

I haven't heard anyone "forgiving" her.

The people who are saying she ought to be let back in are saying she should face the consequences once she comes back.

I really would like those who are saying she shouldn't be allowed back to confirm whether they think foreign countries should accept their criminals if we want to deport any from the UK?

HavelockVetinari · 17/02/2019 20:47

I hate this situation. A child was groomed and brainwashed, she's been with her abusers for 4 years, and has seen 2 of her children die. Sad

Yes, she did a bad thing, but she was groomed at a young and vulnerable age and since then has had no opportunity to come to her senses. She needs deradicalisation and careful surveillance, but let's not forget she's a victim here.

findingmyfeet12 · 17/02/2019 20:52

she has contributed nothing to the UK and I think that is the problem with many of these "British" citizens who are here to contribute nada but take and take

What would you expect a 15 year old to contribute? Who do you mean when you refer to "these "British" citizens?

Justheretogiveaviewfrommyworld · 17/02/2019 20:53

She didn't want to be British when she ran away. She doesn't want to be British now, no one who respects the values of: democracy; the rule of law; individual liberty; mutual respect for and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs and for those without faith would have joined or had any truck with IS. She has said she still believes the ideology and joined willingly. She has no right to enjoy the benefits of living in this country, when she actively supported taking them away from others. She chose to have a baby. Why should he have all the benefits of UK citizenship, when his parents would happily remove them from other children?

meow1989 · 17/02/2019 20:53

She looks out of it in that video (though to be fair she's allegedly just had a baby). There's no remorse apparent. Tiredness? Depression? Apathy?

There's several possibilities to consider about her returning or not returning to the UK;

She was 15 when she went and vulnerable to grooming and suggestion, she is an abused child who has witnessed war, the loss of two children and all else she has known for 4 years. The comments about not being bothered with beheadings etc could be extreme naievity and fear.

What are her motivations for returning? A genuine desire to return to her home country? She would need some intense anti radicalisation work. Is she perhaps wanting to return for more concerning reasons such as influencing others? After all a new mother is probably one of the least threatening members IS could send. There's countless possibilities to explore and none of us can accurately decide which it is.

The child is another matter, I'm not sure social care would have much of an idea on to to legally progress and would need expert input regarding risk to the baby (who I innocent in this, and I believe legally british).

We can all have opinions but I hope that those who decide what the outcome is don't consider the "will of the people" - in general none of us are qualified to assess this, not to mention the emotional bias involved and the decision should be made by legal and anti terror experts.

woodhill · 17/02/2019 20:54

I mean those who are disloyal and are treacherous and are like an enemy within the UK

Cornish83 · 17/02/2019 20:57

Why would we not keep potential hazards out of the country we bring our children up in? We are playing Russian roulette with our lives and all because we can’t upset anyone. Do you think she puts so much thought into our feelings when deciding what’s morally right and wrong?

findingmyfeet12 · 17/02/2019 20:58

She chose to have a baby. Why should he have all the benefits of UK citizenship, when his parents would happily remove them from other children?

These are all reasons why she should be punished but none of them are reasons why her baby should suffer.

findingmyfeet12 · 17/02/2019 21:00

You're right Cornish we should expect other countries to keep our potential hazards.

I hope we never deport another foreign criminal or illegal immigrant because that would be hypocritical.

Justheretogiveaviewfrommyworld · 17/02/2019 21:02

Her baby has more rights than our children to be safe? Why? His parents' should take responsibility for their choices (as all parents do) and accept that he will have to live in their current situation. IS showed no compassion to Syrian children, so why should we show any to her child? I don't get your logic at all.

KingHenrysCodpiece · 17/02/2019 21:10

Its not about upsetting anyone. It's a fact that our laws are applied equally to ALL British citizens, and justice should be blind until a person can defend themselves. Her fate is not to be judged by newspapers or the public except in a court of law. This is our standard. It points directly to who we are. As I said earlier, other countries have repatriated their citizens fron Syria and dealt with them according to their laws. Are we expected to do less? Making an exception in this case would truly undermine our intrinsic values as it pertains to law and the notion that every person has right to defend their innocence until proven otherwise. These laws exist precisely to avoid miscarriages of justice due to mob thinking (aka press frenzy) and presumption of guilt.

Also the concept of justice is not the same concept as 'deserving' Sometimes being just means NOT meting out to a person what we or others think they deserve, and other times it involves treating someone severely who appears to deserve more leniency. I dont think we can get the full picture as things stand.