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Original poster

British IS girl has had her baby

395 replies

BrizzleMint · 17/02/2019 17:55

She's had her baby - a son.

Cabinet minister Jeremy Wright told BBC's Andrew Marr programme that the baby's nationality was "not straightforward".

The culture secretary, who was previously attorney general, said the first priority was establishing the health of her and her baby.

OP posts:
Original poster
BrizzleMint · 17/02/2019 18:52

one who is potentially suffering from PTSD.

OP posts:
Laska2Meryls · 17/02/2019 18:52

Ive just watched the Sky piece , she says she wants to see her husband, so what happens when the Dutch Husband shows up . She might be 'just a housewife' but him?

KingHenrysCodpiece · 17/02/2019 18:53

kinghenry hope that's still your attitude when one of her bombs takes out innocent people....could be someone close to you

I understand that sentiment, but we have to consider that apparently quite a few have returned, some who actually fought and were not children when they made their decision, but we have heard comparatively little about them. They are not so far as the information we have been involved in bombing anybody.

This girl is high profile. I would say for that reason she poses less of a risk than those we know little to nothing about.

meditrina · 17/02/2019 18:56

No, nobody is going to go and get her. Or any other Brits, or anyone else, stranded in those camps. But if she reaches a British Consulate, she can expect assistance, including an emergency travel document if she can satisfy officials she is British (and her face is well-known so that won't be that difficult) - unless of course a travel ban is applied.

Whether the baby is a Dutch national will depend on Dutch nationality laws.

The question about her baby's nationality might (guessing here) expend on whether she is British by descent or otherwise

Arkos · 17/02/2019 18:56

Tbh she should pay if she wants to come back. You see those fundraisers for folk who go abroad without insurance, have an accident and need 80k to get home... the government doesn't pay for them to return so I think she should pay. Oh and then end up with the baby being adopted of course.

Marcipex · 17/02/2019 18:58

Her marriage won't , I think, be recognised legally, because she was underage.
So the baby is illegitimate. I don't know if it's British because it's mother is.

MillytantForceit · 17/02/2019 19:01

She isn't married at any age.

Jihadi marriages are not legal marriages anywhere.

Laska2Meryls · 17/02/2019 19:03

But is she underage in Islamic law? I think that the Nikah is recognised in the UK as a legal marriage if they were married in an a state which practices Sharia law , (but not if they were married under Nikah in the UK ). so if Sharia law allows a girl to have a Nikah at 15 then yes,it will be recognised.. Her being a UK citizen wouldn't matter as she didn't marry here (and they could argue that they were Caliphate citizens anyway at the time of the marriage)

LanaorAna2 · 17/02/2019 19:04

Thanks. The baby will be fine in a refugee camp, there's a lot better healthcare than there is in IS.

Asta19 · 17/02/2019 19:05

The thing is, had they not been driven out of Raqqa, and had this child not succumbed to illness. It would be being raised as a Jihadist. And they start them young on that path. Remember Sally Jones son? They think he’s dead now but I remember much debate over what should happen with him if he wasn’t. It’s a hugely emotive issue because this child is a new born baby.

I have no idea whether her family contributed in any way to her radicalisation or were totally innocent. I simply can’t comment on that. And I’m not sure any of us will really know. Therefore if the baby does end up back here I think he should be completely adopted out. A totally new life.

It’s a quandary now because no one will go in and rescue the baby and leave her behind. It simply wouldn’t make sense, even if that would be the preferred option for many. So what do we do? Leave her and the baby to take their chances? Or risk helping her back to save the child?

As I said, security services don’t have endless funds. It would cost a lot to monitor her fully. Money that will be diverted away from other anti terror work. How would you feel if Joe Bloggs set off a bomb killing people and they said “oh well we were monitoring him but we had to monitor her instead” yes I know they wouldn’t come out and say that but that could be the worst case scenario. The funds go to the highest risk/highest profile cases.

SomethingOnce · 17/02/2019 19:08

Real Housewife of Raqqa tells us how we must feel about her.

She’s not the world’s most gifted diplomat, is she?

Seaseasea · 17/02/2019 19:08

I feel sad for this innocent baby in the middle of it all, if it’s possible to take the baby then it would be for the best and placed up for adoption away from extremism.
But no, some soldiers from the UK fighting IS didn’t get to come home, why should she.
She’s made her bed, she can lay in it.

KingHenrysCodpiece · 17/02/2019 19:09

No, nobody is going to go and get her. Or any other Brits, or anyone else, stranded in those camps

I think we're going to have to something pretty soonish. Maybe something indirect like unofficial assistance to get to a consulate. A journalist was on the radio yesterday talking about the high risk of child deaths due to poor nutrition and sanitation in the camps. This news has gone around the world. How would it look if her child dies because no one did anything to help her even though she asked for a second chance?

I read Russia has repatriated a lot of former Isis supporters including former jihadi brides (telegraph I think, there was a chart) . We would look bad. And like it or not we have a reputation for protecting life and liberty.

Oliversmumsarmy · 17/02/2019 19:11

Surely it is up to Syria to decide what to do with her.

I was under the impression that if you left the UK to join ISIS you revoked your UK citizenship.

meditrina · 17/02/2019 19:11

If she was of age in the place that the marriage took place, then it's valid. However, the place where she married never officially existed, so it's quite likely that no Daesh marriage is recognised elsewhere in any place that did not recognise their 'nation'

But that makes no difference - a child born to a British mother whether married or unmarried is likely to be British (major exception being where the mother is British by descent, and the baby was born overseas). There is also exceptional dispensation for the Home Sec to grant British citizenship to a child who would not otherwise be British if that child is otherwise stateless. Which he might not be, if entitled under Dutch law to his father's nationality (assuming paternity is acknowledged/proved)

MillytantForceit · 17/02/2019 19:12

She can argue whatever she likes, she's still not married.

Any overseas marriage must meet the minimum standards of UK law to be recognised, and that includes the requirement to be of marriageable age in the UK.

The self-declared Caliphate was not a thing. It had no standing and no status. Its marriages are null and void. They never existed.

findingmyfeet12 · 17/02/2019 19:13

I hope the people who are saying she shouldn't be allowed back in aren't the same ones who advocate for foreign criminals in the UK to be returned to their countries of origin.

She's a British problem and I'm not sure why Syria or anyone else should have to deal with her (if she's not deemed by Syria etc to have broken the law).

If she can make her way to an embassy she should be brought back to face the consequences. It's no good saying she made her mind up to go there. Making your mind up to go somewhere doesn't give you a right to stay there.

Oliversmumsarmy · 17/02/2019 19:16

We would look bad. And like it or not we have a reputation for protecting life and liberty

So leave her in Syria then to protect the lives and liberties of UK citizens who haven’t spent the last 4 years as a member of ISIS and has no regrets.

Imissgmichael · 17/02/2019 19:17

There is no evidence at all that she was groomed. Nada, zilch. She’s admitted that she sought out videos of beheadings, agreed with them because that particular view of Islam allowed it. She would have known damned well about the rape camps. Didn’t care.

findingmyfeet12 · 17/02/2019 19:18

For those saying to leave her in Syria, do you think that foreign criminals in the UK should not be deported but should be kept here because they made a decision to leave their country and come and break the law here?

lljkk · 17/02/2019 19:22

I feel safer if she's back in UK to face UK justice system.
If we don't let her & her kind back, then the terrorists have won. They've succeeded in undermining our rule of law.

Plus Out... 'there'; she'll turn to other miscreants for support who will only encourage her delusions & she'll probably never face justice. She'll raise her baby to be like herself for sure.

Asta19 · 17/02/2019 19:22

do you think that foreign criminals in the UK should not be deported

The vast majority of foreign criminals are deported AFTER serving their sentence. Sometimes there is an agreement between us and their home country that they will serve it there but far more common that they serve it here.

findingmyfeet12 · 17/02/2019 19:23

If we don't let her come back we wouldn't have a leg to stand on when trying to deport foreign criminals in the UK. Despite what the Fail says, we do deport foreign criminals and those with no right to remain.

findingmyfeet12 · 17/02/2019 19:25

She might not be tried by Syria, they're in the middle of a civil war and we don't know what their penal code is in relation to what they can prove she's done.

findingmyfeet12 · 17/02/2019 19:27

She's in a refugee camp at the moment (I think). Is she even under arrest?

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