Vuripadexo oh puhlease!
I HAVEN'T said that people know nothing of mental illness I've said that having anxiety etc oneself doesn't make that person an expert in OTHERS mental illness which is true!
As for "This thread is harsh but it has to be to counteract the infantilisation coming from you, her DH and her mother" the thread was ridiculously and unnecessarily harsh before ANYONE posted anything remotely supportive of op so much for "mumsnet makes parents lives easier"!!
Yes the way the op worded things didn't help but for ages nobody thought to try and figure out what the full story might be even though op mentioned her anxiety in the op.
It was a vicious pile on! Plus how ANYONE can think a mother of 4 including a bf baby is LAZY is utterly ridiculous! The circumstances financially might not be the most sensible (and op's dh is JUST as responsible here, she didn't make those babies alone despite some posters rather vile assertions, nor did she decide to incur the debt alone) but lazy? Especially coming from some posters who are sahm themselves with fewer children! The hypocrisy!
I have in a far more gentle (because yea lets be shitty & angry with a woman with severe anxiety! That'll work!! 🤔) way hopefully supported and encouraged op to move forward, get more support from professionals than she currently is to improve her mental health, start to ease her way back in to working again, budget more sensibly.
Aggressively pushing op into doing more than she's currently capable of will simply worsen the mental illness, make her feel like "well I tried that and it didn't work instead it made me much worse" which is likely to not only make op think it's a bad idea but also those around her.
Anyone working with the mentally ill trying to get them to do "more" of what they find difficult knows to do it in increments, let them learn from SUCCESSES rather than seeming failures to build confidence, create a solid foundation of positivity. That's more likely to lead to continuing success.
Her having 4dc and a debt are facts that cannot be reversed its pointless banging on criticising those decisions. She is where she is now.
The sensible thing to do is take stock of the current situation and plan on sensible appropriate ways to improve it that WON'T further down the road make matters WORSE!
"I think that he's reaching breaking point. In a few years he'll be gone. OP will have to grow up then and it won't be pretty. If you hit 50 without working OP you will age into ageism." Do you really think panicking/berating the op with such comments is actually helpful?
Genuine question what does your anxiety manifest around? How would you feel if someone like you in response to a thread you started about a difficulty you were having with something that triggers your anxiety said "well tough! I don't care if that makes your anxiety worse you HAVE to do the thing that absolutely causes you the most anxiety NOW" how would that make you feel?
"Whether they are excuses or genuine reasons do you think UC will be sympathetic to her cries of but I don't want to @Graphista?" IF they were "just excuses" they wouldn't BUT if someone is genuinely mentally ill not sympathetic (fuck knows the tories hold pretty similar views on mental illness as worryingly displayed on this thread!) then yes if that illness is debilitating enough - as it is for me - to prevent ability to work then they would be eligible for UC.
"I don't want to" is simply the way op is verbalising her fear. It's not the best wording and I think it's what's caused a lot of the poor responses. Because really what she means is "it terrifies me".
Following on from that quote I "plucked" from where you BARELY accepted it was possible the op is genuinely I'll you wrote
"However, as her DH who is the one who lives with her, sees her day to day and clearly loves the bones of her and has the patience of a saint, believes she is well enough to start thinking about working..." He's still not a mh professional. He's also got his own (understandable but still won't lead to an instant cure) reasons for wanting her to work. It's also possible that he mistakenly thinks she'd be able as he sees her doing what she does day to day as "coping" when that's within carefully controlled and non-anxiety inducing parameters for op - back to the old 'If they're smiling they're not really depressed' idea.
The dh would probably have been better saying to op something more along the lines of "you need to go back to the dr and get proper support to improve your mental health. You're only coping so far it's limiting your life and you deserve better, we deserve better". Discussed the money as a separate issue, sitting down together and working out a budget where they live more closely to within their current means, speaking to a debt charity to get help with the debt. Then when the op was doing a bit better speak to her about her doing a few hours doing whatever to bring a bit more money in and build that up so that op will eventually be working full time (if good health prevails).
There's ways of approaching things, of handling them.
I happen to agree that the dh probably thought (wrongly and BECAUSE he's not a mh professional - I've had mh professionals criticise and tell those close to me when in meetings they've said things like 'but I can do that for her' "no she needs to do it herself or it'll become harder for her to do and you won't always be around to do it" my loved ones were trying to be helpful & caring just not understanding the long term consequences.) that he was helping op by 'not pushing her back in to work earlier on just after the breakdown' when actually once the immediate crisis was over (and I question wtf the ACTUAL mh professionals were thinking here too) op should have been supported (gradually) back into being a fully functioning adult. That op was actually failed here.
It's not uncommon for the patient to just basically want to create a safe, undemanding little world for themselves where they don't have to deal with their triggers - it's what my stupid brains made me do and I'm currently TRYING to get the right support to get out of! It's protective mechanisms gone wrong. Trying to think of an allegory - a bit like with allergies where the bodies natural correct mechanism for dealing with foreign matter goes wrong and overreacts to things that aren't actually harmful. With allergies yes sometimes we avoid the allergen but sometimes that is impossible (eg hayfever) so we take medication to dampen the allergic response so we can get through the "trigger" of being present with the allergen.
With anxiety a combination of meds & therapy and other treatments gradually dampen the minds/bodies "flight" (avoidance) response so that the patient can cope well enough with the trigger to function.
But that all takes time - even the meds side. Which I'd EXPECT those with anxiety themselves to EMPATHISE with and understand. Just because the op's trigger is a different one to yours doesn't make it any less frightening. She's still experiencing that fear.
There's a real lack of empathy on this thread.
All of you who have anxiety yourself who have berated and criticised the op how would you - no actually (because I'm confident this is the case) how DID you feel when others did that to you?!
Did it actually help? Or did it make you feel MORE anxious MORE useless MORE of a failure MORE guilty and therefore LESS capable and LESS able to deal with the problem? Because that's certainly not only what I've felt, but from talking on mn, on other forums with mentally ill people, in real life it's what I've heard from other sufferers too.
It DIDN'T help. It made matters worse.
What DID/has helped me in the past is understanding, empathy, encouragement, taking things slowly and building confidence, building on successes.
"And expecting handouts from her mother is hardly any better." I agree a handout wouldn't be better, but I think if op manages this situation so that she is acting as and her mother treating her like an employee then it's a starting point. If op agrees AND STICKS TO a set time & day and does the actual work required then it's not a handout. Plenty of people work for family it's not unusual.
"My DD has debilitating anxiety. She can't go and get her hair done. She can't go to youth groups. She can't even walk to the shop alone. She is still well aware that I expect her to find a college placement or apprenticeship next year when she finishes school. She does get DLA or rather I get it for her." I'm sorry that your dd is going through that. But I can't help but wonder, I can see college being manageable as it's not too dissimilar to school and likely there will be schoolmates going too, but if she cannot cope with going to the hairdressers or youth groups then is an apprenticeship really going to be? Is she getting professional support to build up to being able to do the things she currently can't?
"Work is not optional" it's also not compulsory regardless of health issues! Hell if op was single she wouldn't be expected to look for a job with a 10 month old anyway!
"There are people with degrees PhD ect ect who can't find work. You have to be realistic" so true. Especially where I live there's really not that many jobs around. On the VERY rare occasion a new shop or whatever opens they get 1000's of cv's sent in before they're even advertising the jobs!
"But she has skills i imagine. cleaning, food prep, looking after children. Having qualifications when you apply for these types of jobs is often seen as a negative." Erm not! Most even nmw jobs require at least minimum qualifications. Certainly most jobs in childcare, elderly care, catering all usually require that even if the applicant doesn't currently have childcare, care nvqs or equivalents, food hygiene qualifications etc that the applicant at least be "willing to work towards" gaining those qualifications.
"With 4 kids, probably a dab hand at hostile negotiations and disaster management" certainly op's lack of "biting back" on this thread shows she's developed a hell of a lot of patience!
"I honestly think telling people they don't have to do anything when they pull out the anxiety card" NOBODY has said that! Not one. What those of us more sympathetic have said is that the health issues need to be addressed first (but can be done alongside tightening up the household budget) and that a gradual, phased return to full time work is more likely to be successful.
"Looking after your own children (that you chose to have) is NOT a job. It may be hard work, but it's not a job." This attitude, this complete dismissal of the value of being a Sahm is I think the REAL reason this thread has gone the way it has.
"Just to point out to some posters the OP has said she is going to do some cleaning with for her mother and hopefully build on that." They know this they just don't think it's good enough. I get the feeling some won't be satisfied unless she pushes herself to be working full time within 6 months even if that leads her to have another possibly worse breakdown which could really set her back for much longer than a properly phased, supported return to work would.
"but given the massive support MH issues rightly receive" I think this thread pretty much proves they don't! Especially on mn!