Son, DIL, money (mine)

[OhdratNC]

I think I might just need to suck this up but would appreciate advice.
DS was made redundant from nightmare corporate job a year ago and is now self-employed so a big drop in income but also a big drop in stress levels. Two DCs aged 11 & 7. DIL is devoted to DCs, has never had a job and doesn't want to work. I'm retired but have a good pension & some savings. I offered to subsidise the household while DS builds up his business but also asked if DIL might get a P/T job so that she could contribute to the shortfall. Suggestion didn't go down well (their relationship isn't great). Some occasional small contributions have been forthcoming but essentially I am transferring 50% of my income each month. I can manage this but it means that I either delay work needed on my house or use my savings. DS is anxious about it too but doesn't know how to get DIL to see that this is unfair. She finds change distressing and tends to be very stubborn and self-centred when she feels cornered, as she probably does in this situation.

She doesn't do housework,

Really?!

I see a lot of posts are directed at your DIL not working but you say she's never worked and her eldest is 11 I'd say this is a very scary prospect for her, where would she start? I assume she has no skills or qualifications she could use, are there many jobs available in your area? I assume your son has no employees in his business and she cant help out there?

As the mum of a 19 year old uni student who's trying very hard to get a part time job she can balance around studies with little experience on cv its very tough. I am sure she can work far more hours than your dil can. So while I appreciate you just want to see she's trying, you also know she shuts down when cornered and it sounds like both you and your ds are pushing her, basically you agreed to subsidise their household, for how long? they are not wasting money, you have said are living frugally, so its been a year since your ds was made redundant, your DS business should be bringing in enough to pay his mortgage, or they need to sell up, this will take more time so I think conversation is now you need to sell and relocate to cheaper accommodation, how long will this take, so I can begin to plan my own finances...maybe when faced with that plan of action she might find looking for work a better option.

OP you need to be saving up your income for potential care home fees. They start at £1000 per week in London.

If your DS can’t make his business profitable within a reasonable timescale (and of course SMEs often take ages to get off the ground), then he needs to find a job that pays a salary, not sponge off his mum.

Stop giving them money. You sound like my dsis who took early retirement, is facing divorce, house sale etc and still giving her adult dcs money.
You could be more help by offering childcare so your dil can find work.

Give them help with something specific e.g "I'll buy the kids new school shoes" or take round some food for the freezer but don't just hand over half of what you have to live off! That's madness. That leads to dependency and complacency.

The DIL may find it difficult to get a job but there's all sorts of ways of contributing. I'd be ashamed to take that much from a relative/friend. Do they realise how generous you're being?

Agree with others. You have been very supportive but they need to resolve this themselves.

When your son was made redundant, they should have made the necessary immediate financial decisions themselves but your intervention (while kind and thoughtful) meant that they were able to avoid this.

Now that you are subsidising them, they still haven't had to make any major lifestyle changes.

Was your offer open-ended? If so, this is just prolonging their ability to avoid the changes they should be making.

I would certainly let them know that you provided a buffer while they adjusted, but this was never meant to be for ever, and you can no longer afford to do this. Reducing the amount over a few months will give them time to find jobs, put current house on market etc.

Surely she can get a fully flexible full time job though while he builds the business around childcare. Remind her that Mcdonalds either are hiring or will be doing soon.

Neither of them asked OP to subsidise them.

I would hate to have a MIL who feels entitled to judge how much housework I do and if I should look for work.

OP, giving them money doesn’t givenyou the right to dictate how their household works. Stop if you want to. You don’t know what they agreed when your DS decided to become self employed. You don’t know if they once agreed that she wouldn’t work and he would be responsible for bringing the money in. This kind of things are discussed between husband and wife, not husband wife and MIL

She offered and they accepted, and they should not have done.

Why would you give them money whilst she sits on her ass doing nothing? If they can’t afford for one of them to be a SAHP then she needs to work, surely she can do some work when the kids are at school?

If you keep giving them money she will never work because she won’t need too.

Brassbrass Thanks for the different vantage point. Food for thought. I offered the money when I realised that my son was getting anxious and was feeling that he needed to go back to a similar corporate job in order to pay the bills. I've been worried about his health for some time and agreed with his view that the redundancy could be an opportunity to do something different. He got a pay off but it has been used up on a combination of living expenses, paying off credit cards (neither of them have credit cards now) and some retraining & business set-up costs.
I'm close to my son but try very hard not to interfere in the marriage. The EA assumption is probably not objective but there's a tendency to always put him down, to criticise and to be dismissive of anything he says.

Do they have a cleaner then?

It’s up to you to decided whether you want to give your son money or not, and to decide how much you can afford.

Whether or not DIL has a job is absolutely none of your business.

As far as I can see, the two are unrelated.

I would hate to have a MIL who feels entitled to judge how much housework I do and if I should look for work.

Well then, don’t accept to be bankrolled by your MIL then. If she’s paying the piper she’s entitled to question the tune.

You don’t know what they agreed when your DS decided to become self employed. You don’t know if they once agreed that she wouldn’t work and he would be responsible for bringing the money in. This kind of things are discussed between husband and wife, not husband wife and MIL

But he’s not responsible for bringing in the money is he, OP’s doing half.
We do know they agreed to accept OP’s money so that DS could get his business going and his wife could continue to twiddle her thumbs.

It really doesn't matter that if they discussed her not working 10 years ago. Circumstances change and it's now essential that she works.
I hate the idea on here that the man should never change his half of an agreement but the woman should be able to renegotiate more favourable terms at any point.

If he was made redundant that means he got some sort of payment,

Not necessarily.

I think the suggestion to give them less each month, with a cut-off date, is a good one

You're right, it is; as you say, it's the only way she'll be persuaded to work, though how DS handles that is between him and her

Did you really mean she "doesn't do housework" or was that some sort of typo?

Is there an expectation that your money will be paid back? That’s it’s an investment, rather than a gift?

If you offer childcare will you feel entitled to tell her how to raise her children as well? It's entirely possible that she doesn't want you to have anymore involvement or be further dependent on you than they already are!!

Jesus, this is NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

You are enabling it all. You need to tell your son you will stop payments and leave him to take it up with his wife. At 11 and 7, they are not tiny dependent babies anymore.

It does rather sound as if the whole plan has been discussed between you and DS, rather than between you, DS and DIL.

To have used up the redundancy money and be in such dire straits does sound as if no one was thinking long-term enough.

They probably need to move house and both be employed at lower stress, lower paid jobs.

BOTH of them need to look into employment. If he wants to 'grow' his business, then he needs to do it around paid employment.

I wouldn't accept half my parent's income in the first place, unless I knew it would not impact their own living standards or safety (like needed home repairs or a new car, etc). In fact, when I was on bed rest due to pre term labour and DH's wages weren't enough to cover our outgoings, the only money we accepted was enough to pay our mortgage (cheap-ish in the 80s) and only after a serious discussion in which my parents assured us that they would never bankrupt themselves for us. They just wanted to be sure we never lost our house.

I agree, time to close the 1st National Bank of Mum. But I'd give them 60 days to get themselves jobs. Two months is plenty of time to accept the reality that their free ride is coming to an end and then get their arses in gear.

One word of caution though; you are probably going to be in for some ugly backlash. But you must stand firm.

You should never have started paying in the first place. But with that said you're assuming all this your son has told you is true about your dil. Well I'm sure my ex said similar things about me to get money out of his well off father and none of it was true. I managed to find a job during school hours, at a school, but I was so lucky. I don't think you realise quite how hard it is. Your son should have gone into another full time position WHILE he did his training and set up his business. She could have helped with that. And for all you know she does help with that.
I think you need to sit down with BOTH of them to discuss this face to face. I'd be interested to see how much of what you and your son are saying about her is true and how much is exaggerated. There are three adults involved with this, so sit down like adults and talk it through. And remember it isn't her fault, it might not be his either but for all you know she could have been applying for jobs for months, not had any luck and is too ashamed to say anything.

The EA assumption is probably not objective but there's a tendency to always put him down, to criticise and to be dismissive of anything he says. You're never going to be objective in this so if you care for your son step away from the judgements and opinions as to how they should be handling this. You're not helping you're making it worse.