Son, DIL, money (mine)

[OhdratNC]

I think I might just need to suck this up but would appreciate advice.
DS was made redundant from nightmare corporate job a year ago and is now self-employed so a big drop in income but also a big drop in stress levels. Two DCs aged 11 & 7. DIL is devoted to DCs, has never had a job and doesn't want to work. I'm retired but have a good pension & some savings. I offered to subsidise the household while DS builds up his business but also asked if DIL might get a P/T job so that she could contribute to the shortfall. Suggestion didn't go down well (their relationship isn't great). Some occasional small contributions have been forthcoming but essentially I am transferring 50% of my income each month. I can manage this but it means that I either delay work needed on my house or use my savings. DS is anxious about it too but doesn't know how to get DIL to see that this is unfair. She finds change distressing and tends to be very stubborn and self-centred when she feels cornered, as she probably does in this situation.

Thats really a tought situation. Very very kind of you but you could be making things worse for them in the longrun. Sometimes it needs to come to the wire to make people pull themselves together and ship up. There's no reason at all that she shouldn't be looking for a full-time job with the kids that age. It will be difficult but you need to let them figure this out even if it means the end of their relationship. Stress levels for your son have proabably been through also supporting the whole family with her unwillingness to bring in any income.

Aren't your DS and is family very fortunately to have a private financier, take there is no interest to be paid either. If you didn't do this they would have to find their own way out of their situation like most folk would. It's great when family can help out sometimes but really they are taking advantage of you as they should be sorting out their own lives. Give notice then withdraw your funding.

If she works pt too, she can claim tax credits to help pay for childcare costs as they'll be able to claim due to low wage, therefore they'd actually be better off..

No, she can't. There are no more tax credits for new claims. It is all Universal Credit now for people with 2 or fewer children. Every single council now. And they will definitely not be better off. You're also expected to pay for the childcare upfront and then wait for UC to reimburse you, if they do, when they do.

A SAHM status from cases I know - usually and corret me please if I am inaccurate - can last as long as children are small. Then the children though they live with parents at home they have their own independent life . Some times a parent must be at home when there is a special need and take turns looking after. Usually there are arrangements between parents how long SAH would last. Some moms set up a business at home when children are still young. From the cases I have seen SAH is not for ever because children move to uni at 18 and moms want to set up a business somethimes from home or train for something. Many of my mom-friends found opportunities to earn from home like gave classes of language, made preserves and childminded at home so as to contribute and at the same time building own pension.

Hmmm - what is going on that makes you feel that you have to compensate for both of them ? They are adults and they appear to be using you . It reads as being a really unhealthy situation that needs to stop. What support do you have in your life to help you make the change ?

Your too kind for your own good!, don't transfer them any more money!, tell them you can't do it any more. In place I'd offer to buy the children things they need, clothes, school supplies, shoes and offer to give them their tea a few times a week. Or even offer child care so DIL can get a job.

Your not responsible for their marriage they are, if it is to end tomorrow that wouldn't be your problem, they're adults.

How they can sleep at night taking 50% of a pensioners money is beyond me.

If DS has spent redundancy money on a pipe dream without real consultation that doesn’t support family you can see why DIL may not want to go job hunting. Although if it going down the pan may have to.

She may be someone who is too lazy to step up, we don’t know. May be she wanted a career but was persuaded to have kids. So she feels she has given up dreams for goalpost to suddenly be shifted. Being got at by hubby and MIL.

The other scenario could be that he was persuaded to have kids and pressured to work up the ladder in a job he didn’t like. Getting a house and spending above means so she could sit on butt all day. We could imagine all sorts of scenarios.

It is really for DS and DIL to sort out. It sounds like they are not working together. As well intentioned as it may be, it might be causing tension as DIL feels cooked up behind her back.

Is the business feasible? Looking at it from the outside if you knew a stranger was setting up, would you invest in the business? Was there any time period put on help?

If DS on verge of a breakdown or something going into same high stressed job wouldn’t do anyone any good. Would a less stressful salaried job have been better? Or perhaps salaried job and business being set up at same time on a smaller scale? Or a combination that suits both DS and DIL.

What ever happens it is not feasible to carry on like this. I guess the OP has worked this out.

She needs to get a job x

My brother works during the day and they have 2 young DC, one not in school yet. So his Wife gets up at 3 am and goes cleaning, home for 8 am and back to work at 5pm.

Tell her to stop being a bum....

If DIL doesn't want to work I can see her using the excuse that there are no part time school hours jobs available - as to be for these are rare.

So if money is tight, DIL is going to have to consider non school hour or full time jobs too - just to get back into the world of paid work- and use breakfast/ after school clubs or maybe the OP (grandma) for childcare. You know, like other people do

DIL needs a PT job or night shifts so she can sleep whilst kids are at school - it's unfair on you!

Buy them a copy of the Two Income Trap by Elizabeth Warren which makes it clear that DIL needs to start working or the cut their expenses. I started my own business and we lived on a shoestring for 3 yrs whilst I worked two jobs and partner worked too. Paid off in the end but was tough. The other upside is that the kids learnt that money doesn't grow on trees (and we remembered that you don't need money to be happy).

The DS/DiL are actually in the opposite of the 2 income trap dilemma. They cut their cloth to 1 income when they planned their family 12 years ago. This 1 income bought them a house which they probably now have substantial equity in. However they also probably still have a substantial mortgage in line with that 1 income. If the income has halved then they cannot sell the house and realise capital as this would lock them out of benefits, and they cannot afford the mortgage.

Rather than starting a business and income subsidy from DM the DS should have used his redundancy to pay down his mortgage and accepted loans from DM either to continue to fund the mortgage on an ongoing basis or as a capital payment to make them as close to mortgage free as possible. He would then be able to accept a much lower salary position and then look at starting a business / rebuilding / DiL getting a job. As it is he looks to have buried his head in the sand and frittered a large sum which no amount of minimum wage jobs worked by DiL will compensate for.

Almost all mine and DH's friends, all in our 50s, have a main earner and subsidiary earner. All of us have had to cope with main earner being made redundant. The answer always required them to get back on the treadmill and in some cases the lower earner sacrificing their job to make that happen was the better option.

2 income trap couples are different because they require 2 equivalent earners and even then they often end up trapped because they budget based on pre children income and have children without considering the costs of childcare / child raising / upsizing / University support etc etc.

Relying on the DM / MiL is never the answer though.

It’s all very well people saying it’s not the ops problem but as they say children are for life. I certainly wouldn’t sit back and do nothing if one of my children as an adult needed my help. How cold and heartless would that be? I agree the current situation needs managing. The dil should get some kind of job to help the situation. I don’t see why only one parent should feel the stress of the finances. She sounds a piece of work though! Poor DS!! I think maybe the 3 if you should sit down and work out a plan together. It’s not your marriage but you are supporting them and it’s your son and grandkids at stake here. I don’t understand those that show no concern. They’re either childless or heartless.

Hippy mama and others - if their marriage broke down it wouldn’t be OPs problem?? What a ridiculous thing to say!! You don’t just wash your hands of your kids when they turn 18. Well you can legally of course but what about morally and what about actually loving your kids more than anything else no matter how old they are? And your kids kids! It breaks my heart if one of my kids falls out with their best friend at school, I would be devastated to think of my children and grandchildren going through the hurt etc of a family breakup. And I would do anything to help them through it. What is wrong with people to speak so coldly? Have you no imagination to think how you would feel in someone else’s position? Or maybe you really just don’t care? The op clearly loves her family very much and I’m sure doesn’t agree with such cold comments.

Owlbwthere- a family is a family and should pull together when needed. That includes wives who may have previously had an agreement with their hubby that they could be a stay at home mum. So given the change in circumstances, I think the dil should get off her lazy arse and get a job. I have two kids of similar age to dd and I work full time in a demanding job and still manage to be a loving mum and wife. Why should his wife sit there living off other people, expecting her hubby to share the work at home too, while her husband is clearly struggling? Yes I know lots of families have one main breadwinner etc etc, and that’s fine if all involved are happy with that and can manage financially but if things change then people have to change with it. She’s not a bloody princess entitled to a free life. She needs to do her bit as an able adult while her family is clearly at a crisis point. If her husband needed to quit his job through stress she should care about that and support him and her family, not expect him to work himself into an early grave so she can sit pretty. Who does she think she is? I’d be embarrassed if I were her living off her stressed out hubby and mil - she has no shame. Have some damn pride dil and earn some money, look after your kids!!!

Why are some posters saying dil is doing childcare/house care etc so difficult to get a job etc. When my ds wad 7 wks old I went back to work so we could keep our house! 2/3rd my income went on childcare but we needed the other 1/3rd. When dd came along I worked evenings and weekends so oh worked daytime I went to work when he could do childcare, we needed the money so we both worked. Sorry but I would stop all money, they would have to manage if you were not in a position to sub them so dil needs to step up and support her husband and kids.

You found childcare for a 7 week old baby?

Surely you would have been just as well off on SMP with a 7 wk old and childcare costs smiling?

Danzer yes I did, a nursery that took babies that young. Childminders also take babies around 8 weeks old not all parents are able to be Sah ones. He went from 8am to 6pm and was the most laid back easy child, sailed through school life and now has family of his own. I spent my days off doing stuff with him and holidays were spent at home or on day trips until he was 2 when we had enough spare cash to save for a proper family holiday.

Nurseries take babies from 6 weeks old.

some may but not ones where I live, haven’t seen one for less than 3 months. Options here would be a nanny or family member. I would not like to see a time where a post natal woman is told that not getting off her arse and back into paid employment less than two months after delivering a baby is a sign of laziness, so I would not view your scenario as an example to follow - though I’m glad it worked out for you obviously.

Thankfully maternity leave has improved massively in the past 20+ years in UK

Danzers we are talking the days of thatcher government and the scenario was not my choice it was a need. I was trying to say that I did not expect my parents or my husbands parents to fund us, as op ds and dil are, I went back to work early because if I hadn't we would have lost our home as my oh salary would not have paid for everything. When second child came along I worked when oh was at home (evenings and weekends).

My dm did similar and I’ve always thought she was a great role model for me by working in the evenings even with several dc. Bet she was knackered though! Possibly why she used to say she wished I could stay at home!