Son, DIL, money (mine)

[OhdratNC]

I think I might just need to suck this up but would appreciate advice.
DS was made redundant from nightmare corporate job a year ago and is now self-employed so a big drop in income but also a big drop in stress levels. Two DCs aged 11 & 7. DIL is devoted to DCs, has never had a job and doesn't want to work. I'm retired but have a good pension & some savings. I offered to subsidise the household while DS builds up his business but also asked if DIL might get a P/T job so that she could contribute to the shortfall. Suggestion didn't go down well (their relationship isn't great). Some occasional small contributions have been forthcoming but essentially I am transferring 50% of my income each month. I can manage this but it means that I either delay work needed on my house or use my savings. DS is anxious about it too but doesn't know how to get DIL to see that this is unfair. She finds change distressing and tends to be very stubborn and self-centred when she feels cornered, as she probably does in this situation.

Taking 50% of your mothers income... have they NO pride or self respect.

I can appreciate that you wanted to reduce stress for your son.

But you stepping in means that dil never has to step up herself. It will be healthier for them if they learn to support each other without your safety net.

Do you usually discuss these things just with ds? Perhaps she feels she isn't fully involved in these arrangements....

there's a tendency to always put him down, to criticise and to be dismissive of anything he says

If you mean by DIL it's no wonder he's feeling anxious, though the solution's in his own hands

I wonder whether she's considered what her position would be if he left her? Certainly DS would have to pay maintenance, but it's usual for women to be expected to work if possible in such a situation and I can't see that being popular

Puzzled not a typo! It's a bohemian-eco sort of household so no ironing, no polishing, no hoovering, just occasionally throwing toys into boxes. They both load/unload the dishwasher and washing machine. I'm not remotely judgemental about this by the way since I've got a similar approach myself. It was just that someone suggested that if my DIL took on 'wifely/housewifely' duties and all the childcare then she wouldn't have time for a PT job.

Whether or not he should be looking for jobs is to a certain extent irrelevant as he is not going to be able to earn a similar amount to in his previous job without sacrificing his health by the sounds of it. This means that he might not earn any more in a lower stress employed position than he is from his own business. Therefore she has a responsibility to financially contribute and needs to be looking for a job. In many ways it'll be easier for her to find a job if he remains self employed and therefore is able to work around school hours giving her open availability.

It's the basics of the mortgage repayments & household bills

Then they need to downsize op. Or one of them needs to get a job. If your son isn't even earning enough to pay the mortgage and bills and she's earning nothing, then they need to change their lifestyle to tie to their financial abilities.

These are adults. With children. It's time to stop enabling the pair of them.

And I do mean the pair of them. Because your son can't even pay his mortgage a year later. They'd previously got themselves into debt. He is choosing to be with his wife. No one is putting a gun to his head.

The pair of them sound like selfish feckless people. And no it's not all on your daughter in law. Your son also has to bear responsibility. You absolving him and floating him is simply enabling the pair of them to continue in this irresponsible manner.

this is one of those situations where getting the viewpoint of the other side would be really helpful in formulating exactly what is going on.

Because OP in all honesty there are bits in what you say that make you sound like an interfering MIL who feels that her sons health was suffering and that somehow his EA wife should step up and get a job because she is too attached to the children and who does no housework and who used to make him do childcare when he got home from school

Now is it that or is it a woman who is happy to do nothing while sit and see her husband health suffer and is willing to take money from her MIL

Suggest she trains to be a TA. Lots of schools have a very high turnover as women tend to move on once they feel confident about working outside the home. Good TAs are hugely in demand, particularly at secondary schools and working in a school would fit neatly around her own children.

It could even be a woman being used as a scapegoat by a son who wants to continue to be subsidised who applies for jobs and does plenty around the house. We just don't know. I think you just need to take this to them.

Bloody hell you shouldn't be financing the household in your old age. Your ds and DIL need to sort this out. My PILs also subsidise my BIL and have done since he got married (10 years ago). I can't get my head around people accepting this arrangement. What will BIL do when his dcs grow up and expect him to do the same?

Thanks all. I get it.
Will speak to my son next week and begin to cut back on the payments.

Clearly you hate your DIL, presumably she is aware of this.

If I were in her shoes and anyone rocked up offering money and telling me I should get a job, I wouldn’t take kindly to that. But you are blaming her reaction on your perception that their relationship is bad?

Your son presumably discussed with his wife, what he was going to do after being made redundant. He decided instead of getting another job, he would faff around starting his own business so that he could be “happy” and expects his SAHM wife to go to work to support that. They would have surely agreed she would be SAHM when they had children but now that things got tough for him he gets to choose his lifestyle and her wishes can go to hell? If you want to support him in that, go right ahead but how dare you suggest she should. No wonder their relationship is in trouble if he makes decisions like this without thinking through the consequences and you interfere by tellin her she must get a job. Remember what you hear from him may not he an honest reflection of the actual situation.

Can you imagine the reaction here if a SAHM posted her husband had made this decision and MIL told her she must go get a job. There is no suggestion he can’t go out and get a new job which will cover his mortgage. He needs to realise he has responsibilities and step up, not decide it’s all about him.

Does the lazy bitch have any self respect whatsoever? What a pathetic excuse for a mother she is! 'Devoted' my arse; she won't even provide for them. Stop enabling her tout de suite!

You've been incredibly kind, OP, but I think it's gone past the point where you're helping them through a sticky patch and that they need to find a sustainable way of managing long term.

I think how they choose to do that is a matter for them, though, and that you should leave it up to them whether they decide that DIL gets a p/t job or he opts to go back to corporate life.

Having said that, I'd like to know how DIL spends her time, with both kids in school.

whilst I agree with the TA - I sont think the pay will actually help

and thats the rub isnt it - is any part time job actually going to suffice in this because I dont think it will

Did she work pre kids ? Is it a confidence thing ? Like people have said she could be. A dinner lady and being something in each month and still be around for the kids.

At 11 and 7 they are out of the house for at least 6 hours a day during which there is time to provide another income.
She has got too comfortable.
Your sentiments were lovely as you probably didn't like seeing him under such stress but this decision was a couple's decision and the consequences were clear. If she wants that life then she must work for it if he is no longer able. Bet your bottom dollar she hated the thought of him not being corporate in high wages.
Another vote for graduated reduction in two stages. Time for them to deal with their life decisions and for you to step back and get on with yours.

Where is the evidence that the OP hates her DIL? That seems an extreme statement. I think any parent would be frustrated by the behaviour of an adult who accepted money but made no moves to help solve the problem.

Presumably the son was happy when in his corporate job to never once have to do a drop off or pick up, take a day off for a sick child or to take them to hospital appointments etc. This has never been my experience but it’s how a lot of couples work.
In one year the rig has been well and truly pulled from thus situation and changes need to be made. But is the dil only allowed to get a job that fits in perfectly with school hours and makes no demands of her dh, or can she go out and look for any full time job that interests her?

Who cares whether it was previously agreed for her to be a SAHM or she lacks confidence for fuck's sake? Her family are in financial dire straits and she needs to get up off her ass, push herself out of her comfort zone and help provide for her children. Christ, some women are absolutely beneath contempt.

There is no lifetime right to be a stay at home parent and yes I do think the working partner should be able to unilaterally withdraw support for such a choice at basically any point as long as they are willing to step up and cover half of the housework and half of any childcare costs. Staying at home is a privilege and not a right and being the sole financial provider is stressful so it is never unreasonable for a working partner to feel unable to continue with such stress. This is especially true when the working partner is beginning to suffer health effects from their work and has been offered an easy escape route albeit one that pays less.

But it's not just about the daughter, it's also about the son. He couldn't hack it in the corporate world, and a year later his business isn't even making enough to cover his mortgage, it's time to get real. Instead of the pair of them living frugally off his mother.

In my experience if someone can't hack corporate mentally it's highly unlikely he can successfully be an entrepreneur, his business performance would indicate this is correct.

So he needs to accept it's not working, there is no end in sight here. So he needs to reevaluate and so does she.

Him ducking about at something and making no money for a year, and her doing fuck all, It's arguable about which one is more at fault, but no way to absolve him.

Tell the both of them to get a job.

My friend was advertising a job in a secondary school as a technician (not science) in a very rural area. Hours to suit applicant. Nobody applied. Those kind of jobs, much as MN might sneer, are brilliant about helping someone to gain confidence and also to enjoy being part of a team.

OP you sound lovely, they are very lucky to have you.

What DeltaG said. I think they should both find something reliable and look to pay you back before there's any more talk of starting a business!