Why are some people successful?

[Gwenhwyfar]

I'd like to get your opinions on why some people are successful (particularly at work, but also in general) and others are unsuccessful. I'm looking for personality types and soft skills rather than hard skills I understand that someone with a masters in a STEM subject might have a better chance of making money than someone with a BA in an Arts subject or just GCSEs, but I'm thinking more of things like being confident, being positive, being sociable and why do you think some people have those qualities and others don't. Is it down to early childhood or are they things that can change throughout our lives?

umpteen that’s fair enough but a lot of people here are not saying that, they’re saying it’s all sheer grit and hard work.

Leaning in.

Even Michelle Obama said that was fucking bullshit.

Luck. Nothing more. The luck to be born in the right place, at the right time, and with the right people supporting you and showing the way. Luck to be able to take advantage of what comes your way.

That’s all it is.

To those saying hard work, determination etc: you were lucky enough to have been born that way or to have had someone show you the way. It’s still down to luck and not something that’s you control. Research increasingly shows that meritocracy is a myth, and success in life is down to privilege and Luck.

I think luck definitely plays a part, plus good health, confidence, social skills and having clear goals. I'm 32 and I still don't really know what I want to do with my life so despite having a good degree, I'm in a fairly low-paid (though generally enjoyable) job with very little scope for progression.

OP - you asked about working harder in an admin environment - you do that by volounteering for add-on ‘extra-curricular’ stuff like organising a team building day for the office, you don’t do it by working twice as hard at what you already do (that just means someone else gets made redundant).

The team building day for the office is probably already part of her remit.

Totally understand that you have volunteered for the extras and it never made a blind bit of difference. That is the joy of admin work! Picking up more and more work that other people don't want to do for no extra remuneration or recognition.

I got out of PA work a long time ago for that very reason as I could see fairly average members of staff getting promoted and receiving pay rises while I just sat tight doing more but just getting rate of inflation increases (if I was lucky).

"It's to do with being able to anticipate things, too, and to use your imagination to see what might go wrong"

Can you give examples of this?

I've trained many people in the past and in my experience you know within a very short time who will be good.

They ask a lot of questions at the beginning. They don't just want to know about their job, but about the other jobs in the chain that adjoins theirs. In knowing that, they can anticipate problems and make sure that when something leaves their desk, it is idiot proof.

I'd be interested to know how many of those posters that think it's completely 100% down to luck are successful?

To me this thread basically demonstrates the two mindsets - 'growth mindset' (I can influence and change things) vs 'fixed mindset (Its down to luck and I have little influence on my own life).

Those showing characteristics of having a growth mindset on the thread tend to be those that say they've had success.

Are those that say it's all down to luck as successful (fixed mindset)?

Probably not. So there's your answer, and interestingly it's the thing I originally thought of as the number one, most important factor.

Are you saying that your personal example disproves stats based probably on thousands of people?

Snore

puspuss - thanks for that. Any more detail/examples you could give would be appreciated.

percy - you're absolutely right about admin work. I like where I work now, but it's absolutely not an area where working hard or volunteering gets you anywhere.

I’m certainly not traditionally successful. Single parent, disabled, on benefits, council house. Some of that is down to “luck”, some down to my own choices. But I’m content with who I am and what I have, thankful for the “luck” of living in 21st century Britain, with a safety net for people like me.
But I want my children to be “successful” and I hugely value education. My ds1 has just been accepted to a top university to study law, and he recently won an award for his voluntary work. But how much of that is his upbringing (the good and the bad), how much is his personality, and the luck of the draw of being academically bright?

I definitely agree with those talking about luck, class and privilege, but am more interested in your thoughts on soft skills and personality for the purpose of this thread.
Also, by 'successful' I don't necessarily mean top positions and loads of money.

“To me this thread basically demonstrates the two mindsets - 'growth mindset' (I can influence and change things) vs 'fixed mindset (Its down to luck and I have little influence on my own life).”

No it doesn’t. Most people have said it either is all my own hard work cos I am so hard working not like them lazy oiks or yes, it takes hard work, but you need the opportunity to work hard and that that isn’t always available to everyone.

slow Really? Just blindly ignore statistical evidence because it doesn’t fit your personal viewpoint?

Gwen, I completely sympathise. How about project management? Could draw on your skillset but move into a much more lucrative role with more opportunities. The world is pretty much your oyster in that regard.

I suggest you read Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers". It explains the many influences on success and is an easy and fascinating read!

My husband is very successful. He came from an abusive childhood, no money and left school early with not one qualification.
But he's incredibly motivated and driven and despite the lack of academic qualifications when he was a teenager he's very intelligent.
We've taken risks which have paid off but quite as easily could have not paid off.
Luck had a part to play in things in that he was in the right place at the right time however he still had to make it work.

Find something you're good at and focus on it.

OP personality will never trump privilege but.

Those who are confident, generally cheerful and not martyrs will go further. Hard work but not being a mug. Getting into the right industry at the right time so being able to spot those kinds of opportunities- eg a friend of mine just trained as an accountant. Pointless as in 5-10 years it will all be automated so she’ll have to retrain again.

But all of these abilities are influenced, again, massively, by privilege.

Catniss my OP sounds v similar to your DH. It's all down to hard work, perseverance, not taking no for an answer, knowing every aspect of the business, He also has the gift of the gab & is able to talk to anyone very easily.

It has taken its toll on the work / life balance and he wants to be retired by 55 (5 years from now) as he wants his time back to enjoy travelling.

Can I also add, the element of entrepreneurship is also required, the ability to look at a process in a different way, & being able to make it happen more efficiently without disrupting those who eg don't like change.

Umpteennamechanges I think mindset can have a huge impact and would never say that success is solely about luck. I tend to be optimistic and look for new opportunities, and that has definitely led to some improvements in my circumstances but also I've had to learn to accept my limitations in some respects. Health has been a factor (mentally and physically), and while a positive/ growth mindset can also help you be more healthy, it's not a magic bullet. Other people may be held back by learning difficulties or a condition like ASD for example, or personal circumstances. There's a tendency for people to be a bit fanatical about 'growth mindset'; I think it's an important factor in success but there are genuine issues which may curb the most growth-minded individual's ability to achieve success (however you choose to define that).

"How about project management? Could draw on your skillset but move into a much more lucrative role with more opportunities. The world is pretty much your oyster in that regard."

Funnily enough. I did once consider doing a project management course. I actually had a job with the title 'project manager' but there were no projects and no managing - it's just what admin people in that sector are called. I got the impression many project management jobs are in IT and engineering though? Is that right? Not sectors that interest me at all.

"draw on your skillset"
Not sure I want to draw on my limited skillset! If I have to re-train anyway, I often think I should start as if from scratch.

"I suggest you read Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers". It explains the many influences on success and is an easy and fascinating read! smile"

Thanks Kitty. I read it a while ago. I agree it's interesting.

"Find something you're good at "

Have been trying to find something all my life

Successful people believe two things. That the future can be better than the present, and that they have the ability to make it so

I agree with many pp that this comes down to confidence built in early childhood

Luck. Yes, hard work factors in, but you have to be able to be in the position to do the hard work first.

This. DH had to choose a job candidate once and they were fairly evenly matched so he picked the one whose clothes he preferred. I once got a job and found out years later that they had actually flipped a coin between equally suitable candidates. And another time I was offered a job but the offer was subsequently withdrawn because the employer’s cousin was made redundant just then and needed a job, so they ditched me and gave my job to her. Lucky for her that there was a job available at the right time but unlucky for me because if she hadn’t lost her job I’d have had one.

Of course once you’re in that lucky situation it is down to hard work and commitment. Although even then there can be an element of luck. There was a news article just the other week about a small handbag company which made a fortune because Meghan Markle chose to carry one of their bags and sales went through the roof. Presumably they’ve worked hard for years but that unanticipated stroke of luck is what made them a fortune.

Hi Gwen

I'll come back on this later when I've had time to get my thoughts in order.

Thanks puss.
Also interested in what makes people unsuccessful when they're no less privileged than their friends.