Why are some people successful?

[Gwenhwyfar]

I'd like to get your opinions on why some people are successful (particularly at work, but also in general) and others are unsuccessful. I'm looking for personality types and soft skills rather than hard skills I understand that someone with a masters in a STEM subject might have a better chance of making money than someone with a BA in an Arts subject or just GCSEs, but I'm thinking more of things like being confident, being positive, being sociable and why do you think some people have those qualities and others don't. Is it down to early childhood or are they things that can change throughout our lives?

@BlaaBlaaBlaa reading your post I'm wondering if my job is completely different to others. I get to work after school run so as soon after 9am as possible then ensure hours are right for the week even if I leave promptly the day I was late the next day I may stay longer, for example. I'm often late for meetings as I get grabbed by people in the corridor on the way to meetings. I'm senior management.

However I'm constantly on call so maybe it balances out.

I don't think your role is that unusual but I bet you have things you have to be on time for? I'm a university lecturer and I need to be on time for lectures and meetings ....the rest of my time is my own. I can work from home if I want.

My point is that timekeeping and punctuality shouldn't be dismissed. If we are teaching career management skills ( which I do) then teaching people to be on time is important.... especially early in your career and when you're building your reputation.

"I had a placement student turn up at 9.15 every day when we'd asked him to be in at 9. His excuse...to get in at 9 he'd have to get an earlier bus 🙄
Needless to say he wasn't employed at the end of his placement because punctuality and attitude was important.

Timekeeping always features on lists of what skills and qualities employers are looking for."

It's really not like this in most offices any more. You're quite a harsh employer if you wanted your placement to get an earlier bus and hang around until 9 rather than give him the flexibility of arriving at 9.15 and leaving 15 minutes later. It's different if you work in a shop and the shop has to open at a certain time, but many offices are flexible these days so the timekeeping this is not that relevant to me.

People being late for meetings is not a big deal where I work either and people sometimes have to leave meetings and come back if something else crops up.

It cones to two things. Intellect and work ethic. Nothing more. And nothing less. No amount of hard work can compensate for a complete absence of intellectual ability and no amount of intellectual ability can compensate for a complete lack of effort.

"ack the insight to see that being on time isn't the key to the universe, but in the context of things one can do to help oneself, it's in everyone's gift to show commitment, to be there at the time agreed, and demonstrate you give a damn. "

Of course I can see that everyone (well, most people, my friend with ADHD definitely can't) can be on time. I'm just old enough to know that it won't get you anywhere.

@gwenhyfar
But if she asked him to be there at nine then he should have been there at nine. Maybe you attitude to being told what to do is holding you back? Part of working hard is doing things you think are pointless simply to please those who you will rely on for professional advancement,

Well I work with a number of graduate recruiters ranging from large multinational companies to sme's covering all sectors you can think off .....when I spoke to them a few months ago to ask what they were looking for when taking on new graduates nearly all referenced time keeping and punctuality as a basic employability skill.

Once you establish yourself and understand the organisational culture then quite often you find there is some flexibility. Quite often that flexibility is earned once a organisation has established you can be trusted.

We weren't a harsh employer at all.....we had a flexi time policy so had he arrived before 9 he could have claimed that time back. However, he had a specific duty to perform at a certain time and he was often late. It didn't make a good impression.

Hah. I want my trainees to question the need for stuff rather than silently obey, because if I can't justify stuff I'm a shit manager and because it helps me figure out what they don't understand yet and fill in the gaps: x seems like nonsense, but it has this impact on y, so in the wider context it makes more sense.

But I've had a grad in my team who found it hard to make 9.30 meetings every morning. We discussed it, and concluded that if he was having a bad morning, he could dial in. Sorted.

timekeeping this is not that relevant to me say that in your next interview and see how far you get.

"@gwenhyfar
But if she asked him to be there at nine then he should have been there at nine. "

Well he should have asked her permission for flexibility, but many workplaces these days really don't think coming in a few minutes late is the crime of the century.

I don't have an attitude to being told what to do? Where has that come from?

If I need to be somewhere on time, I will be on time or early. I don't have a problem with it, but I know that in many offices these days being on time is not a big issue and many have flexible hours.

I do have a problem with the suggestion that people who follow the rules, come in on time and work hard will always be successful as it's just not true. It depends what skills you have and what jobs you can get. I remember someone who was extremely conscientious, but she went down rather than than up. She was like the hamster in the wheel, hard work with no reward. I know there's a lot more to it than just doing what you're told.

"timekeeping this is not that relevant to me say that in your next interview and see how far you get."

Ha ha. Most interviews I go to they tell me they have flexi time. I just sit there and nod because I don't care that much about flexi time.

Cross-posted with BlaaBlaaBlaa - if he had a specific duty to do and wasn't doing it, then fair enough.

I think though that when talking about very young and inexperienced people new to the workplace, the sort of guidelines you put in place aren't really what you want for a 40 year old who's been successfully holding down roles for a couple of decades.

First jobbers often don't get the most surprising things about the workplace, and need to learn that. But that's not really what determines success for an older person.

" nearly all referenced time keeping and punctuality as a basic employability skill."

Yes, but the thread is about being successful, not basic employability skills.

Hah. I want my trainees to question the need for stuff rather than silently obey, because if I can't justify stuff I'm a shit manager and because it helps me figure out what they don't understand yet and fill in the gaps: x seems like nonsense, but it has this impact on y, so in the wider context it makes more sense

And that's absolutely fine. Had my placement student questioned why he needed to be by 9 I would have explained......just turning up late without explanation cost him a full time job, especially as he continued to do it after being pulled up about it.

You need the basics to start with!!

Ha ha. Most interviews I go to they tell me they have flexi time. I just sit there and nod because I don't care that much about flexi time

Another little gem there!

It's becoming blatenly clear why you aren't successful.

"the sort of guidelines you put in place aren't really what you want for a 40 year old who's been successfully holding down roles for a couple of decades.

First jobbers often don't get the most surprising things about the workplace, and need to learn that. But that's not really what determines success for an older person."

Thanks very much cucumber! Someone understands me here :)

I think though that when talking about very young and inexperienced people new to the workplace, the sort of guidelines you put in place aren't really what you want for a 40 year old who's been successfully holding down roles for a couple of decades*

But success is quite often earned and doesn't happen overnight. As mentioned previously it's a combination of planning, attitude and luck. Starting off with the right attitude early in your career will help you become successful.

"It's becoming blatenly clear why you aren't successful."

Because I don't care about flexi time??

"You need the basics to start with!!"

But as Cucumber explains above, I have the basics. That's not what the thread is about.

Hmm. Often I think "the right attitude" can actually be social capital - that a 21 yr old first jobber whose parents have talked to about work/workplaces and how they operate will already "get", but another equally smart kid from a less privileged background won't have.

Social and cultural play a huge part. Particularly in some sectors.

It's more your attitude OP. If you speak and act like this in a work situation I can see why promotion opportunities may have passed you by.

I think it isn’t about A levels or what degree you have a lot of the time it is about confidence.

Dd at 18 with no A levels and just a handful of scraped through GCSEs was offered a managerial post in a city based company on £40,000. Per year because someone had seen her running a large event and saw how smoothly and calmly things ran.

It is not something you can learn it is more of a personality trait.

Dd turned them down as in dds words “it would kill me going to the same place with the same people doing the same thing day in and day out”

"If you speak and act like this in a work situation I can see why promotion opportunities may have passed you by."

All I said was that I would nod when they talk about flexi time. What's wrong with that?

I don’t know how important this is, but it’s definitely a difference I have observed between me and people who are significantly more senior (and therefore more successful) than me. I’m reasonably assertive and confident, but if I find someone unpleasant or difficult to work with for whatever reason, and I can get away with avoiding them, I will. If they don’t want to engage with me, I’ll let them get away with it because it makes life more comfortable for me. Successful people don’t do that, they seek them out and chase them down until they get what they want.