Why are some people successful?

[Gwenhwyfar]

I'd like to get your opinions on why some people are successful (particularly at work, but also in general) and others are unsuccessful. I'm looking for personality types and soft skills rather than hard skills I understand that someone with a masters in a STEM subject might have a better chance of making money than someone with a BA in an Arts subject or just GCSEs, but I'm thinking more of things like being confident, being positive, being sociable and why do you think some people have those qualities and others don't. Is it down to early childhood or are they things that can change throughout our lives?

Agree completely with @umpteennamechanges. I'm pretty successful from a poor (refugee) background. I'd say it was down to spiritual success - it is my belief in myself, the belief my family have in me, my self worth, a determination to be happy, and a genuine desire to want others around me to be happy and successful too.

You also have to be pretty hard on yourself too, harder than others are on you, and accept no excuses from yourself as well. I have had to give myself a good talking to a few times about how I could choose to do what's easy vs doing what is right, or more difficult.

Raise your standards too, and set yourself apart. 'They might do that, but I choose to do better'.

Don't compete. I've learnt not to hold myself to others' standards, use them as a starting point or a guide but only if that person is doing well. Carve your own path.

Start admiring people who are where you want to be, and copy them. Look up, and don't look down at people to make you feel better about yourself, it's cheap. Help those that seek your help too.

And choose your personal team well.

Luck. Or having a client or employer take a shine to you. Maybe you remind them of someone or you share an interest or have a mutual friend. Getting a foot in the door is the passport to everything else - if that doesn’t happen for you then it’s game over.

@umpteennamechanges nailed it I think. You could pay a lot of money for that advice.

On luck...

Luck determines where you start from and to some extent the tools you will have.

So if you think of "success" like a finishing line that is the same for everyone, generally the people who get the biggest head starts will be the winners, and most of the people who start far back never even make the finishing line. Some people start so far ahead they can go backwards and still finish way ahead of most people.

That is one way to look at it, and it's totally valid. For example, if you are thinking about social structures and fairness and how society should work best, a model that looks across everyone is the one you need.

But you can also think of success as how far you get from where you started. That's where the hard / smart work, the grit and the soft skills come in to it. And when you look at that measure, you can absolutely see that what people do will make them more or less successful. You can also see that "better" doesn't have to be the same for everyone - it could be richer, but it could also be healthier, or doing work you value, or having time every day with loved ones.

This measure is also valid, and it's the right one to think about when you want to be successful in your own life.

You can't have someone else's luck. So you can say it's not fair that people start with advantages and you'd be right, but it shouldn't stop you from taking steps to making your own life better.

The other thing about luck is opportunities. Again, if you start from privilege you have more opportunities. But the other thing with opportunities is that each one you take opens up new ones. So if something comes along and you don't take it, you stay where you are hoping another one turns up. But if you DO take it, you move to a different starting point and opportunities that wouldn't be available to you before are now. (Of course, there may be opportunities that were open to you before that are not any more. But if you'd wanted them you'd have taken them already, so chances are you'll get more out of the new ones opening up than the old ones closing). So opportunities are partially luck but also partially how you respond to them.

Umpteen - DH is like you and it's a quality I hugely admire, I really marvel at it. I'm a bit of an ineffectual dreamer - I'll think of something I would like to do and have lots of lovely daydreams about it and vaguely think about it being a reality, "someday somehow" - before meeting and (several years observing) DH, it wouldn't really have occurred to me to actually sit down and work out OK, what are the things I would need in place to do this thing, what are the barriers, how could I get past them, what do I need to do in what order and how long will it take? He can and does do that almost automatically. He's so well practised at it that he can do it in his head.

Even though I understand how this works now, I still find it incredibly difficult to actually do it and work it out. I usually feel totally overwhelmed and don't know where to start - this is the most difficult part. I actually don't really understand (to use your example) how I could go from having no experience in sales, to knowing what skills and qualifications are realistically required. And then even if I do manage to work this out my brain will decide all/half/one part of it is impossible so I might as well not bother, or do it "later" Or I'll get all carried away in lovely daydreams about small aspects of the plan and get stuck there, or I'll go off the initial plan or have another one in the meantime - I have more lovely ideas than willingness, time or energy to work out whether they are worth following up.

Anyway. I suspect that's why I never end up doing much that I conceive of

Blibbyblobby above makes some excellent points!

Those of stating it’s luck or class or background...it is not always the case. I know plenty of ppl who came from very little (money wise and support wise) and have become very successful. I have a relation who came from a council house with parents who were disabled an relyed on her all her life...she is now a college lecturer with a doctorate at the age of 40. She would call it hard work and determination not luck!!!

I'd like to ask -
What career/job/position would you recommend for someone who didn't go to Uni and has very good/excellent people skills.
Thanks

Thinking further I think it depends. Take DH and his sisters. Supportive if chippy parents determined their children would go to uni which was an opportunity they didn't feel they had although MIL went to teacher training college and FIL became an engineer through day release etc. But apart from the drive to get them to uni their horizons were limited and they never said anything like "you need to work hard and a nice quality of life will follow" "you can't take out more than you put in" ie except for uni the parents set no expectation and continued to pepper every sentence with phrases like "that's not for people like us" "ooh them up the road are well off and sent their Johnnie to the high school but her side was always posh."

Result:
DH probably the cleverest joined the YC's at 16 and got taken under the wing of an elderly couple who encouraged him tobtry for Oxbridge. And he did and once there got swept upwards on the tide of achievement and encouragement from beyond his family. Entered a profession, met me (UMC) learnt more about working a room and confidence. Had grit and resillience and became the absolute best in his niche field. 7 figures best some years. Workaholic but had my full support to succeed. The money was a vicarious benefit of him doing something he loved ultimately though. But many colleagues without sound marriages that broke faltered because this is the world of 110% commitment.

SIL 2: went to art college and was pretty mediocre but nobody told her or gave her the right guidance. Never had a proper job and has worked in shops to facilitate the art. In her 50s she's still never sold a picture for more than a couple of quid. Met a chap who was a bit of a drop out but had a job doing kitchens for the local authority. Gave that up decades ago to carve pots. She doesn't do housework, doesn't believe in nice clothes, doesn't visit her mother because of the fares, lives in a v rural and woo community. Her dc are feral and have not achieved. The eldest works in sainsburys. Now that would all be fine if she appeared happy with it but she never stops moaning about poverty and unfairness and how hard life is. Whilst criticising us for being capitalist bastards. Never been known to decline a bung of a couple of thou from DH though. Lazy and selfish despite nurture and a loving background.

SIL 2 - again happy go lucky and she and her partner have backpacked across the world. In their 50s, no children, he's a senior teacher and she has a goodnjob for the local authority. They have also invested in a couple of buy to lets so whilst no burning desire for success or ambition they have made a good life and whilst being very left wing never complain or whinge.

So it's about individuals and choices too.

Re the admin - I have a team of administrators. The problem with admin is that it often supports professional staff be it finance, marketing, hr, facilities. To succeed you need to take the exams. Problem is that the money isbreasonable and a drop is required often to facilitate the step backwards to do so and by then people are often in childcare/rent/or other lifestyle traps.

And then there's me. Didn't go to uni (well did but dropped out) but have prof quals now. Had a career in the City before DC starting on an "admin" desk but had an eye for detail and head for figures and went the extra mile to make sure things balanced, looked for missing info, picked up a problem and raised it. Then when DC were at school started again at the bottom in a different field and am now director of service. My rationale - I see the gaps and plug them and have a can do attitude and am very determined. I have always aimed to please the level above and be courteous to my peers but I have always called out unacceptable standards or unfairness. Sometimes it is unpopular short term but pays dividends long term.

Personally I grew up with divorce and was very very cautious about relationships. I also love work and have energy. I have no need now to work but what would I do?

Some people start so far ahead they can go backwards and still finish way ahead of most people

DM works for a family owned company. The owner has brought his 18yo son in as DM’s boss. He does bugger all and goes off on a jolly every few months. Despite that he’ll still end up being the company director. He’s already been featured in news articles as “up and coming” despite the fact that DM does all the work. Their last project won an award and the company publicised it as being a joint project between DM and the son. His name is engraved on the award beside hers. In actual fact DM did the project alone while the son was off skiing. THAT is the real world. Luck and privilege trumps hard work.

I have a relation who came from a council house with parents who were disabled an relyed on her all her life...she is now a college lecturer with a doctorate at the age of 40

That isn’t successful. Lecturers have a heavy workload and earn a pittance. She’d probably earn more managing a McDonalds!

Fabulous post from *blibbyblobbh?. Wonderfully articulated. It's the length of the journey that matters and one hopes one's children finish a little further along. That is what is so very sad about SIL1 but sadder still that as she wasn't bright enough to see it her parents didn't have the wherewithal to articulate it for her. If they had she might at least be where she is through choice rather than chance and thus less bitter.

Silkei if being an academic is what you want and is your ambition and vocation of course it's successful. And tell me can McDonalds staff wprk flexibly around 10 hours presence per week? Do they find what they do fulfilling? Do they have 7/8 weeks holiday, research sabbaticals, published journals, great pension (yes still) and v generous sick pay?

@Silkei what gives you the right to call her unsuccessful, she has a nursing degree, a midwifery degree and a doctorate. And I don’t know where you are but here lecturers earn quite well (average of 48-50k and increments up to 80+k) it’s not all about money anyway it’s about accomplishments and determination. That’s the problem with ppl today they want to put in the bloody work they just wanna wake up one day and walk into a high paying job for nothing like they earned it just by fucking thinking about it!🙄

My point was that the previous post indicated that being a lecturer is a step up from living in a council house. Some lecturers actually live in council houses because the pay is so rubbish. And while they may have some flexibility in terms of where they choose to sit and work, they’re still working extremely long hours for a pittance. Not what I’d call “successful”.

*don't

it’s not all about money anyway

I’d argue that if you’re low paid you’re not “successful”.

silkei i think you’re the only person I’ve ever seen who thinks being a lecturer is not successful.

Well anyone can live in a fucking house theoretically I suppose but she just so happen to be a homeowner also. That may be you’re view on success but if honest I find it quite sad that you can’t see someone else’s personal success stories!! @Silkei out of interest what do you deem successful then??

Some people say luck or being in the right place, but it's more nuanced: certain people are better able to spot the right place and capitalise on it because of certain traits, some people are more likely to be in the right place because of their network/background.

Traits of successful people I know- understanding and leveraging their skills, determination, learning from failure, work well with people, goal-orientated, able to see the steps to achieve success, learning from the success of others rather than minimising/envying it, hard-working, confident, positive.

*council (bloody phone)

One of the reasons I left the NHS as promotions etc were handed out, not because of the skills of the individual, but how good mates they were with the people interviewing them. It's practically and epidemic and extremely detrimental to services.

@Silkei and no she wouldn’t earn more at McDonald’s (just for the record a managerial role there is approx 27k)

confidence, which comes in part (a very big part) from parents who encourage you and help foster good self esteem. I've realised this as I've trained to be a therapist and seen first hand how formative years have a huge impact on the rest of your life. Successful people believe they can, even if they can't. That kind of self belief comes from those around us as we're growing up.

silkei i think you’re the only person I’ve ever seen who thinks being a lecturer is not successful

Perhaps because I was one. It’s shit. The pay is crap - DH earned treble my salary with far fewer qualifications. There’s no job security, loads of bullying and favouritism, constant budget cuts and threat of redundancy, ridiculous hours and terrible pressure leading to people going off sick with stress just the same as other teachers do. McDonalds staff have more job security and less hassle as well as better long term prospects. In case you haven’t guessed, I’m very bitter about having wasted two decades on a worthless career in which it’s impossible to achieve success.