Why are some people successful?

[Gwenhwyfar]

I'd like to get your opinions on why some people are successful (particularly at work, but also in general) and others are unsuccessful. I'm looking for personality types and soft skills rather than hard skills I understand that someone with a masters in a STEM subject might have a better chance of making money than someone with a BA in an Arts subject or just GCSEs, but I'm thinking more of things like being confident, being positive, being sociable and why do you think some people have those qualities and others don't. Is it down to early childhood or are they things that can change throughout our lives?

My husband was a free school meals kid, exceptionally bright but from a poor but hard-working family. His parents turned down a scholarship at a very prestigious school because they felt it might be unfair his siblings couldn't go. He went to a very mediocre school then dropped out of university because his Dad thought he should get a job. He has very few qualifications.

Despite all of this, against the odds and without 'luck' or privilege he is an extremely successful man, both professionally and personally. He is kind, honest and extremely funny and I think one of his overarching qualities is he makes people feel safe and secure. All his employees are incredibly loyal. He works in a highly pressurised and quite backstabbing environment and I think people are drawn to him because he is such a stable, consistent presence. He also perseveres, sticks with things and is absolutely unruffled in a crisis. He's quite charismatic and his character is the opposite of what people perceive a successful businessman to be, which surprises people because you can be nice, do the right thing and be successful.

It depends on your definition of success. To me it's the ability to function happily and have ease of being which in my opinion is a mixture of luck, privilege and psychological factors -
Internal locus of control - an attitude of 'I can impact my destiny rather than 'the world is doing things to me'
Self awareness
Emotional intelligence and regulation
Humilty - an ability to rub along with people

If definition of success is economic as it tends to be in this society then it's different factors. I worked in an environment where the most psychopathic, ruthless individuals rose to the top because those traits were valued in that environment.

I'm afraid I don't buy the hard work thing though. It depends what you do I suppose. In my area (office admin) how hard you work changes nothing. How well you work can make you slightly more highly regarded, but doesn't change much either imo.

^ this

Working hard in office admin just means a higher workload IME!

Janice - so in your DH's case it's inheriting an entrepreneurial spirit? He must also be skilled in his trade or he wouldn't get repeat business. I presume he has a vocational qualification in that trade as well.
I completely lack that entrepreneurial thing. The thought of starting my own business just seems too risky for me.

It’s certainly not just luck, or the privilege of having a wealthy and supportive family background!
I had abusive parents and was very poor as a child, so no help there.
What I did have was a bloody minded determination to get away from home and better myself. I saw that the way to do that was education, so I worked hard at school and applied for the universities furthest away from my home town. I was rejected, so worked in a shit clerical job for a year then applied again, getting accepted for a degree in medicine in Scotland.
As a widowed single parent, I had to convince the consultants and the health Trust to give me a permanent post over the heads of four male applicants- I got it by being known as a bloody hard worker and utterly reliable, and I talked myself up at the interview. (Not easy when you’re autistic and it doesn’t come naturally!)
What I’m saying is, never give up or think only the privileged get anywhere in life. Sheer sodding stubbornness and determination go a long way too.

"^ this

Working hard in office admin just means a higher workload IME!"

I suppose an office admin person who wants to work more would get a job on the side to learn new skills or think about going into the side job full time. I wouldn't have the energy though.
I do wonder if there's something wrong with me when I hear people talking about the long hours they work. I've worked between 35 and 37 hours most of my life and have always felt dead tired by Friday night, even when not very busy. I think it might be to do with looking at a screen so much.

Luck comes into it but only so much as what you do when you have bad luck and the resilience you have to come back from a knock back at work or at home. Some of the most successful people I know have experienced horrendous loss of loved ones or redundancies at work. This is where personality type comes in.

success is created from who you do when failure/bad luck strikes. Using bad luck as an excuse for never succeeding will not forge a successful way forward.

Grit is the answer imo.

"Internal locus of control - an attitude of 'I can impact my destiny rather than 'the world is doing things to me"

I absolutely lack this. I've tended to see life as something that happens to me and not as something I have any influence over. This of course means I haven't made the right decisions along the way.

‘People are not promoted because they are lucky’.

Well, no. But in my workplace there will be several well qualified people and not enough ‘promotion spots’. So you are lucky to be promoted, because not everyone is.

And that is before you even start on being lucky to have whatever makes you good at your job in the first place (intelligence, strength, people skills etc)

You have to have a positive mindset, can do attitude and emotional intelligence. You need to push yourself and don’t make excuses for why you can’t do stuff.

Support network, support at home, support from family, support from friends. School for example, if you have supportive nurturing parents, you are likely to be successful academically as they create an environment for you to thrive.

I feel the same applies to any endeavour, say you plan to explore the Darien Gap and your support network is completely in place ready for you to take the first step, they have helped you plan and prepare. You are likely to be successful.

Say you want to be the next CEO of Berkshire Hathaway having a good support network in place enables you to focus on acquiring all the knowledge and skills necessary to gain that position.

There's definitely some nurture rather than nature involved. I look at my childhood best friend (same working class background, same age, same opportunities etc) and there's a huge difference between us. I think because my parents pushed me to work hard (at school - and everything else!) and be independent. I was never good enough unless I was excelling (not easy to grow up like that but...). Whereas my friend's parents encouraged her not to take risks, not to push too hard or be ambitious and stay close to home etc. Just be happy with your lot she was told. By our teens, you could see the difference. By our twenties and thirties....well, it was a chasm.

Now in our forties, she hasn't ever lived more than 2 miles from her parents, she's never travelled, she's in the same job she took after leaving school. She would say she's happy and content. I hope she is but I think really she just doesn't know any different. I've lived in 3 countries and worked in quite a few more. I earn a 6 figure salary and work in a high pressure job. I've taken risks in my career (that seem to have paid off but I'm just taking another one right now so who knows?!) Pushing myself is ingrained. I am always looking for the next challenge and striving to get out of my comfort zone. Is that success? I don't know. But it's bought me options and the freedom to choose. If I want to go back to our village where we grew up, I can (I don't by the way).

So much success comes from an individual's drive. In my case that was encouraged in me by my parents. In my friend's case, she doesn't have it (neither does her brother) even though she had a happy childhood and family support. But it's not just down to that.

My cousin had a very tough time growing up but he has gone on to make a massive success of his life. He says it's the adversity he went through as both a kid and as an adult that has driven him to be successful. I'm really proud of the successful man he's become. We were talking about this just recently. Our family does have a reputation for 'grit' though. Knock us down and we always come back fighting (sometimes literally in the rougher parts of the family). He says that grit is what drove him on. Ironically as a child he was best friends with my childhood friend above's brother. They now also have a chasm between them. The brother is living a few doors down from his parents and is miserable with his life but does nothing about it. He just blames others. In his case, I really do blame the parents.

Positive reasons are: try hard, put in the time, have an interest in what they’re doing, positive personality, good at it.
Negative reasons: sociopath or narcissist who can tread over others, manipulate and schmooze to the top.
Neutral reasons: luck

"If definition of success is economic as it tends to be in this society"

Only partly for me for the purpose of this thread. I would consider an interesting job and a modest wage to be a success, but a low wage causes problems in life. I'm defining a low wage as under 20k though I realise you'd need a lot more money in London.

So I'm not from a privileged background....single mother after leaving alcoholic abusive father. Grew up in one of the worst places to live in the UK, old industrial town, high levels of drug use and teen pregnancy. Working class family, no one had even made it through college before me let alone university.

I think most people would consider me successful now - seniorish role in financial services in the City, six figures, etc. I've been part of a number of charities over time, always really just wanting to do the entry level roles (fundraising, working on the telephone lines, cleaning out animal cages, etc) but always end up being a Trustee or whatever.

I'm massively into self-development so have given some thought as to success and characteristics and my opinion what has helped most has been:

1. Mindset.

I never look at something I want to do and think 'I cant' or say anything like 'I'm just not that kind of person' or 'I'm rubbish at x'. If I want to do something I accept where I am now but spend a decent amount of time effectively plotting how to get where I want to be.

Let say I decided tomorrow to work in Sales when I've never worked in Sales before and aren't a natural seller. I would sit down and write out all of the things I think I need to develop and be able to demonstrate to get there. I'd read a lot of books to inform this more, get opinions. I'd find a sales person in real life I thought was awesome and take them for coffee, tell them I thought they were great and could they share with me what they knew about X (people like to talk about themselves and love the compliment so will open up).

Instead of listing all the reasons it won't work (and there would be many), I'll brainstorm how I can make it work. It might involve doing some 'out of the box' thinking - if I can't get that experience in work, how can I get it by volunteering or by just buying some stock of something and selling it as my own little business for a learning opportunity

I started reading a book about 'growth mindset' the other day and realised this was the name for the way I am so maybe read about that?

1. Stop Trying to be Perfect

This might be one for me personally but the whole imposter syndrome thing used to make me try to be perfect before doing something. That's a trap. Do something, then get perfect at it (or 90%, perfection is a fools goal). Quite often you just have to go for something and only through that experience will you grow. If you wait until you're perfect for the next step, you've waited years too long (also - men don't do this!)

1. Be Nice

It makes life nicer for you and everyone else. Sure...sometimes you might need to deliver a difficult message, make someone redundant, whatever. But you can do all those things with a genuine desire to be a good human being. Be chatty, ask people about their weekends, get to know them. Crack jokes to lighten the mood. Be someone people want to work with, that they trust.

People will always remember who they liked working with and trusted. Be the same to everyone, if you're one way with the CEO and an arsehole with the receptionist or the security guy, people will notice.

Also - receptionists, PAs and security guys are good people to know to get things done!

1. No Negative Self Talk

I'm always amazed on the threads here about negative self talk - with all that going on in your head you're not making space for much else.

It's pointless, it doesn't achieve anything and often becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Absolutely be realistic, you can't grow if you think you're awesome at everything, but negative self talk is completely stunting growth.

I always assume I can do something or reach a goal - I just have to work out how and what steps I need to take and how to improve to get there but I always assume I can definitely get there if I apply myself.

1. Resilience

You have to be resilient. You'll fuck up. It's impossible to constantly be learning, growing, be out of your comfort zone without making some truly amazing fuck ups. I can cringe a lot about some of my past mistakes. At the time though you just need to think of them as 'learning experiences', learn what you need to from them, change your approach and move the fuck on.

Then cringe a year or so later

"Sheer sodding stubbornness and determination go a long way too."

And in your case also being intelligent enough to be accepted to study medicine.

"‘People are not promoted because they are lucky’."

Well, in quite a few jobs promotion doesn't even exist, or not without further expensive training.

I think it's because they are driven. My dh and my sister have both successful careers. Some people just find work an 'addiction' and I think that's why so many people are successful. I do envy them sometimes because I've struggled with my career and sometimes not been able to work at all for a period of time. And I think it's because I've had emotional issues which means I'm not as driven as them.

...and most importantly DON'T believe the posters that say it's luck.

That would be the biggest mistake.

If it's just luck then it implies all you can do is plod along and hope to be lucky. That is ALL WRONG.

You have to be proactive - the harder you work, the more opportunities you create, the 'luckier' you will be!

I was never good enough unless I was excelling (not easy to grow up like that but...).

That's a feature of one of my materially successful friends. She's never really satisfied either.

”You have to be proactive - the harder you work, the more opportunities you create, the 'luckier' you will be!”

Of course that’s true, and I don’t think anyone thinks it’s sheer luck.

But statistically, white, mc, educated, able-bodies men are always going to have more ‘luck’ than others. Anyone who thinks otherwise is very naive.

I'm afraid I don't buy the hard work thing though. It depends what you do I suppose. In my area (office admin) how hard you work changes nothing. How well you work can make you slightly more highly regarded, but doesn't change much either imo.

Admin work is like a treadmill though....it's always there, there's always more of it, you can never finish. You can be the fastest runner in the world on a treadmill and you'll still get off in the same place you started.

The thing to work hard at isn't at the office admin...it's at working out what you really want to do and then making that happen. Whether that's being an Operations Manager where you are or something totally different. That's what you need to figure out and work hard at.

“There was absolutely no luck involved in my success. Just hard bloody work. No weekends off for the last 15 years.
Left school with no o'levels, no parental help. Those who think success is simply luck are very wrong”

But you had the luck to be born in a country that gives you the opportunity for that success. And to be born with the ability/intelligence to work hard.

It does not denigrate your success to say that not everyone is in the position to do well.

Not sure why so many fail to see that.

A very tough background can also be a bloody strong driver - I was personally driven from a very early age by never ever wanting to be poor. That pushed me for years and years and gave me the edge over people with more privileged lives.
OP - you asked about working harder in an admin environment - you do that by volounteering for add-on ‘extra-curricular’ stuff like organising a team building day for the office, you don’t do it by working twice as hard at what you already do (that just means someone else gets made redundant). You get on by getting noticed and by showing how invaluable you are and then by ‘claiming’ the next run on the ladder (ask for the job, show them you’re the best candidate, and show them who you will train up to take over your current role. Take away their reasons for refusing). That’s the kind of thinking outside the box you need to succeed. Hard work, but in a focused direction.
To get properly to the very top there was a good article I read quite recently about focusing on what ‘box’ needs to be dropped to get there, and accepting it. The boxes were family, friends and health and the article claimed (and I agree) that you need to drop at least one most of the time and often more than one at once. DH and I are very different and both successful, and both of us have dropped one or other of these for months (years) at a time. It’s not just about carving out time, it’s about carving out headspace. Fortunately one of us has been around to pick up the slack when the other has had a torrid period, but it is still hard when you have to do it; we are very lucky that many of our friends have lives that are similarly busy so the are fairly understanding when they’re don’t see us for months on end other than for snatched hellos in Waitrose aisles. The real breakthrough we found was when we became busy enough to justify a non-business-related PA to manage our non-work lives - only then did we manage to get organised enough to pick up all our ‘boxes’ at once and stop sacrificing stuff. Until then it was very hard, and not a lifestyle many people would envy (or stick with).