Why are some people successful?

[Gwenhwyfar]

I'd like to get your opinions on why some people are successful (particularly at work, but also in general) and others are unsuccessful. I'm looking for personality types and soft skills rather than hard skills I understand that someone with a masters in a STEM subject might have a better chance of making money than someone with a BA in an Arts subject or just GCSEs, but I'm thinking more of things like being confident, being positive, being sociable and why do you think some people have those qualities and others don't. Is it down to early childhood or are they things that can change throughout our lives?

I think that some people are good at expecting success and then achieve it.

"The thing to work hard at isn't at the office admin...it's at working out what you really want to do and then making that happen. Whether that's being an Operations Manager where you are or something totally different. That's what you need to figure out and work hard at."

Yes, but I wouldn't call that working hard. It's not being at the grindstone in any way is it and I've been thinking all my life about what I should do and got nowhere - been at this for almost two decades!

• Of course that’s true, and I don’t think anyone thinks it’s sheer luck.

But statistically, white, mc, educated, able-bodies men are always going to have more ‘luck’ than others. Anyone who thinks otherwise is very naive.*

This is true, but if you take it to the extreme as some posters have that it's all to do with luck that's also incredibly naive.

I'm successful even though I have bipolar disorder and have been in a psychiatric hospital twice in the last 5 years for example.

Confidence in your own ability, if you think you can do something other people will have faith in you.
Always keep your word, never over-promise.
Don't be scared of being proud of your achievements, let people know what you're capable of.

It really depends how you define success.

A lot of my friends are healthcare professionals, teachers or work elsewhere in the public sector.

All work their arses off, contribute massively to society and their communities but none would probably meet the usual definition of success. Most don't own their own homes, don't have masses of cash and all that, they get by.

Other people I know have big houses, money, nice cars and holidays. The vast majority of those were born into privilege and have had a lot of help to get where they are. Funded through uni, deposit help from parents etc I don't doubt there's a fair bit in nepotism too.

Many work in finance, making other people rich in sometimes dubious ways.

I don't believe that hard work alone makes someone successful by any definition. Some people will work ridiculously hard, long hours in low paid jobs and will never be able to do much more than break even. It's very insulting to imply that they're just not trying hard enough. I see the spirit of Thatcher is alive and well!

So for me, to meet the popular definition of successful, I'd say it's about privilege, some luck, some hard work and often making ethical decisions about the sort of career you want to pursue.

umpteen

Well as I have said about 5 times now, no one actually thinks it’s all luck/privilege. Yes you have to actually do the work too.

But no one seems to want to admit that their race/background etc helped them out a lot.

I include myself in that.

I was always in the top sets at school so I just naturally assumed I could go to university. Not everyone has that.

When it’s all put down to hard work, you’re basically saying that the majority of non privileged people are lazy. That is simply not the case.

For me it is hard work with a little bit of luck thrown in and things happening at the right time.

I am successful at work. This is because I work my ass off, have ambition and always put in extra effort. This with things coming up at the right time has meant I have got to where I am. It doesn’t mean those that aren’t successful don’t work hard, but the right things might not come along for them at the right time. There are people however that moan about others success when they don’t work hard. I know from getting promoted the amount of people who moaned that they didn’t get a promotion but they only ever did the bare minimum required and then wondered why they didn’t get opportunities.

I’m not so successful in my personal life though but I know I just need to put as much effort into my personal goals as my professional ones and I will be.

A combination of good luck and good judgement
it could be said that the ability to make good judgements is a lucky thing to have, so I think it's all luck
Perfect storm
that kind of thing

being self-centred ruthless driven and prepared to Sacrifice other people's well-being for your own goals is also very helpful

Luck and upbringing has nothing to do with it in my opinion.

I come from a very disadvantaged background and worked incredibly hard to become successful in the career I chose. From early on I had researched every step I needed to take and had plenty of alternative plans in case those steps didn’t work out, all with the same goal in mind.

I knew what I needed to do and what I should be doing each month, year, etc. I worked 7 days a week for 6 years only having Christmas off and it didn’t bother me because it was necessary to reach where I wanted I be.

My DH on the other hand, he comes from a well off family where he would have had a career set for him but he just had no interest. He likes his job to have as little impact in his life as possible in favour of other things.

Yes, but I wouldn't call that working hard. It's not being at the grindstone in any way is it and I've been thinking all my life about what I should do and got nowhere - been at this for almost two decades!

Let's call it working smart then. Being at the grindstone isn't always what's needed to be successful...in fact if you've always got your nose to the grindstone you're probably missing opportunities.

I would say, politely, working on mindset needs to be your starting place. Your posts for example are quite negative and finding problems rather than opportunities. If you can afford to do some counselling on mindset it would be worth it (you don't have to be having MH issues to find counselling invaluable).

So in your decades of thinking about what you want to do what have you thought about?

I'd start with:

• What does success mean to me? What level of work life balance? What level of money (or however else you define success)?
• A list of what natural qualities I have that are useful and experience I have that might be useful
• What kind of roles do I know of that these lend themselves to?
• What kind of roles do I know of that I'm interested in and would be 'successful'?

those with the most wealth and power are those who have been able to position themselves so that other people will work on their behalf

“Luck and upbringing has nothing to do with it in my opinion.”

A cursory glance at the statistics will prove this to be totally untrue.

I don't go for the 'grit' or 'hard work' hypothesis. Homeless drug addicts have a huge amount of 'grit'. A lot of poor people work very hard every day just to get the basics in life.

I just read this book; the guy talks about his parents' expectation that of course he & siblings should go to Harvard for under-grad degrees. His parents were horrified about the low attainment of the school district where the kids grew up in Arizona. The parents moved heaven & Earth to try to improve local schools but also made sure their kids grew up with multiple high skillsets (in sport and music as well as academics). the parents were role models of high achievers for whom high achievement was normal among their kids & family. There was always an expectation that everyone goes to Ivy League, probably be doctors & the parents understood the 'system' of how to get into those types of Ivy League Unis (it's far from based on mere academic achievement). There was an overall expectation of constant high achievement in everything.

So I'd say for most people, 'success' arises from how they were raised, what they were expected to aim for. Plus the luck of ability & appropriate temperment.

no one is self made, we all depend on public resources which have been funded by the collective efforts of everyone in society
no point in having a Maserati if there are no roads to drive it on
no point in being wealthy if we can't trust institutions like banks and the rule of law
You can't have a business without schools to educate people who work for you
those schools are paid for out of public funds
We all rest on the collective efforts of society

"You get on by getting noticed and by showing how invaluable you are and then by ‘claiming’ the next run on the ladder "

There hasn't been one in the places I've worked.
I used to volunteer for extra things, but learnt years ago that people who do that are just mugs (in my line of work anyway).

"To get properly to the very top "

I'm more interested in 'not the very bottom' than the very top.

Of course luck and upbringing have something to do with it.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12170357/Half-of-Britains-best-actors-privately-educated.html

www.theguardian.com/education/2016/feb/24/privately-educated-elite-continues-to-take-top-jobs-finds-survey

"Although just 7% of the population attend independent fee-paying schools, the survey reveals that almost three quarters (71%) of top military officers were educated privately, with 12% having been taught in comprehensive schools.

In the field of law, 74% of top judges working in the high court and appeals court were privately educated, while in journalism, more than half (51%) of leading print journalists went to independent schools, with one in five having attended comprehensive schools, which currently educate 88% of the population.

In medicine, meanwhile, Sutton Trust research says 61% of the country’s top doctors were educated at independent schools; nearly a quarter (22%) went to grammar school and the remainder to comprehensives.

In politics, the picture is a little better, with under a third (32%) of MPs having been privately educated, though that figure goes up to half of the cabinet, compared with 13% of the shadow cabinet."

"A lot of my friends are healthcare professionals, teachers or work elsewhere in the public sector.

All work their arses off, contribute massively to society and their communities but none would probably meet the usual definition of success. Most don't own their own homes, don't have masses of cash and all that, they get by. "

Are you in London? Because these people would be considered successful where I live and all the teachers I know own their own homes. You can do well on a nurse or a teacher's wage where I live.

@IAmAlwaysLikeThis

I completely accept the fact that privileges have a role to play, if this were a discussion about why certain races or classes or backgrounds overall fair better or worse, then I would talk about those factors.

But this is a thread about one person. Underplaying the amount that any individual can do to influence there success is equally wrong.

I'm female, working class and disabled. I have no doubt that were I male, middle class and not disabled I'd be even more successful. My equivalents who fall in that category are Directors now and I'm not. That is almost certainly down to privilege, but it doesn't stop an individual being successful, it's just that it's much less likely you'll ever get to the same level as those with privilege (and obviously there are privileges I do have like being white and living in the UK).

"the parents were role models of high achievers for whom high achievement was normal among their kids & family. There was always an expectation that everyone goes to Ivy League, probably be doctors & the parents understood the 'system' of how to get into those types of Ivy League Unis (it's far from based on mere academic achievement). There was an overall expectation of constant high achievement in everything."

So pushy, ambitious parents who know how to work the system. That comes back to class.
My parents believed in education, but in all education without much worry about what it was.

Taking opportunities. Making opportunities.

A cursory glance at the statistics will prove this to be totally untrue.

A cursory glance at my own life will prove it to be true.

"- What does success mean to me? What level of work life balance? What level of money (or however else you define success)?

• A list of what natural qualities I have that are useful and experience I have that might be useful
• What kind of roles do I know of that these lend themselves to?
• What kind of roles do I know of that I'm interested in and would be 'successful'?"

Thanks. I can only answer the first one - same answer I gave to Swedish Edith on what I call success.
Can't answer the others at all.
I've had counselling in the past, including careers counselling.

"A cursory glance at the statistics will prove this to be totally untrue.

A cursory glance at my own life will prove it to be true."

Are you saying that your personal example disproves stats based probably on thousands of people?

Okay so, to begin with:

• A job that is interesting
• One that pays more than £20k

What kind of things do you find interesting?