Why are some people successful?

[Gwenhwyfar]

I'd like to get your opinions on why some people are successful (particularly at work, but also in general) and others are unsuccessful. I'm looking for personality types and soft skills rather than hard skills I understand that someone with a masters in a STEM subject might have a better chance of making money than someone with a BA in an Arts subject or just GCSEs, but I'm thinking more of things like being confident, being positive, being sociable and why do you think some people have those qualities and others don't. Is it down to early childhood or are they things that can change throughout our lives?

I think a lot depends on how you respond to competition. My son did as little as possible in school. He wanted to study music at university but although he worked hard with his band, he did very little in music lessons in school - it was all stupid.

When he went to the audition at university he was left in a room to warm up while another boy was having his audition in the room next door. When my son heard that other boy, he realised that he (the other boy) was out of his league. I think that was his defining moment - he could easily have said he wasn't going to do his degree, because it was all stupid and a waste of time. I was amazed that this was his turning point - he realised he would have to up his game and that comparing himself to other boys in his own class at school wasn't enough - he had to compare himself to boys who'd done some work and actually gone through the grades (another stupid thing, according to my son.) I think that sort of pivotal moment is often found in people who do well - they realise what they've been doing so far isn't going to get them where they want to go to.

I think probably the problem is the job you're in. It's very hard to be great at admin and not just get abused for it, with everyone giving you extra work to do. If you were to daydream about your ideal job, what would it be?

Op, I'm sure you have lots of positive qualities and skills but maybe you are looking in the wrong direction.

I retrained in a clinical role. Now work in the NHS and feel much more at home than I ever was in business. I feel like I have found my tribe and although I am never going to be Chief Executive, my career prospects are much better than they ever were as a PA.

Not everyone is or can be a driven ball busting go-getter. I was always described as a 'lovely lady' which used to annoy me somewhat but I've just focused on that aspect of me (i.e. kind, caring, encouraging) to carve out my way.

I think probably the problem is the job you're in. It's very hard to be great at admin and not just get abused for it, with everyone giving you extra work to do.

^ this

Networking is more important to being successful than hard work (or being particularly good) is.

Self-promotion - not hiding your light under a bushel.

Charisma.

Emotional intelligence.

Confidence.

I have seen very mediocre people soar by having most of not all of the above.

Luck is a factor sometimes.

But confidence is something that your upbringing in the main gives you. I work somewhere where we get a lot of interns/graduates. You can always tell who went to private school or who come from middle class upwards. Even though they may be of equal intelligence (or less intelligence) to those who come from a working class background/went to "normal" schools etc they have an innate sense of self worth, confidence (sometimes arrogance) that the working class grads don't have.

I’m reasonably successful. Not as in Bill Gates, but I have a fantastic job that pays very well, lots of properties, investments, savings, happy marriage, great relationships/friendships etc.

I think luck has been maybe 10% of it. My siblings were afforded the same opportunities as me, but I’m the most prosperous out of us. They’d all describe me as the most ambitious one.

I have quite a good appetite for risk- I’ve set up a business and it failed. I’ve invested in businesses that have failed. Ive been lucky to have a support system around me that has meant I’ve been able to use savings to fund some of these things. Husband wasn’t thrilled when I lost money, but we’ve never ever fought over money- even when my business folded and things were incredibly tight.

I’ve done a lot of self-development and have identified my strengths (communication, problem-solving) and my weaknesses (procrastination, being a bit impulsive) and have worked hard to get the best I can out of myself.

I do exceptionally well in work. I’m very lucky that I work for a company that gets me, and invests in me. I’ve worked for some shit operations before, but landed on my feet with my current employer. I work very hard. I was never a 9-5er, but am senior enough now that I can be flexible when needed. I’ll happily check my emails at 11pm and 5am, and don’t see it as a burden.

I didn’t get a degree when most of my peers did. I dropped-out of Uni in first year because I hated it and felt I didn’t fit in. I returned to education as an adult. Since then, I’ve ear-marked a certain amount of money each year to put towards additional education. I’m lucky that my company pays for a lot, but I’m willing to invest my own money where needed. I average one to two additional qualifications a year, typically to diploma-level or accredited in my industry, depending on the subject.

If I don’t have experience in something and see that as a gap to my progressing in my career, I’ll pursue a qualification. Again, I’m lucky that, when I’ve done this, my company has given me the space to put up my hand to take on work in my “new” area, and free my time up a bit.

Generally though, I think I’m just good at getting stuck-in and will do what I can if needed even if the task is three stage above my pay grade, or three under it. I figure, if you’re in the shit, someone has to start shoveling.

I think, for me, the key change for me was working on a large company. I’d previously worked in small-medium organisations before moving in to a very large one. It’s amazing what projects and methodologies you get exposed to, and the amount of networking that you can do even within the one company.

Hard work
Determination
Persistence
Resilience
Interpersonal skills
Willingness to take significant risks, eg Rupert Murdoch bet the farm on Sky TV in the 80s.

I think it starts with a bit of luck, an opportunity...

Some people will grab that opportunity and run with it, put a lot into it, get even more out of it

Others will decline the opportunity, as it's not exactly what they wanted, they think it's not going to be much good, or they think they lack experience (or another negative mind-set reason)

A little bit of luck, and a lot of hard work.

Energy and hardiness.

OP I’m just going to push back on some of your points:

I don't understand how you got a job offer every single time you rang

Presumably she’d done her research prior to phoning and knew she had something to offer them, rather than phoning up blind. DH could say the same, he knows his niche and doesn’t approach companies who aren’t a good fit.

I don’t have goals/life is just something that happens to me

I think this is the key to why you aren’t a “success” - if you don’t know what you want, how can you achieve it?

I’ve always planned about five years ahead of where I am now, and then worked out how to get to where I want to be. So I’ve taken courses in Swahili because I want to work in Tanzania, engineered training in various statistical methods because I need those skills in three years’ time to do the research I’m interested in. Obviously if I’d had no goals I wouldn’t have done any of those things, and wouldn’t have achieved any of the things I’ve achieved.

And you really shouldn’t be exhausted after 35hrs at work - I’ve done shifts longer than that! If you have a long commute maybe use that time more productively - I did most of my MSc coursework on the train between London and Stevenage, and during quiet moments on nightshifts. Same as amateur triathletes I know set the alarm to train at 6am before work, and linguists listen to language tapes in the car.

You do have to identify something you actually want to do though, or of course you won’t be motivated. It does sound a bit like you are looking for justification for “not feeling like a success”, and that the only answers you ‘ll accept are “success was handed to me on a plate, there was no effort required, total lottery.

You mentioned external/internal locus of control - if you don’t feel that you have any control over your life, you won’t make any changes to it. Which is fine if you are happy, but you sound dissatisfied when you post here.

I do think that family support plays a big role growing up - my grandad was a coal miner, my parents were both payment clerks in the DSS, so my upbringing was not particularly privileged (though I went to an independent secondary school on a scholarship). My mum always taught me and my brother that we were as good as anybody else, and supported our dreams absolutely. I’ve posted before that lots of people said I shouldn’t apply for medical school, but my mum said “why not? You’re as good as anybody else”, and when I failed at things she never let me accept that I wasn’t capable of doing it, and pushed me to pick myself up and have another go.

It’s not all upbringing, because my brother had the exact same upbringing and is a bit of a slacker. But I see people who give up at the first hurdle, or never even have the courage to try, and they are no different in brains or ability to me. They just give up more easily.

Thinking and questioning only get you so far in determining your goals. For you that hasn't really got you anywhere. Sometimes you have to do something new, anything, somewhere new to learn what you do and don't want and what opportunities exist.

For example, you say you might be interested in project management but those are mainly IT and engineering which wouldn't interest you. IT and engineering project management covers a huge huge range of things, which leads me to think you have never really investigated the options in any depth.

If you go to work in a big IT/engineering consultancy of some kind as an assistant or even a junior PMO (Programme Management Office) team member then you'll see a wide range of jobs and industries you could move into.

Stop basing your thinking on stereotypes and assumptions. Change admin job to put yourself in a space where you are surrounded by people and types of work where you can learn about wider things you won't even know exist before you start there. When there be deliberately nosey. Aim to learn what your options are by doing stuff not by navel gazing.

"And you really shouldn’t be exhausted after 35hrs at work"

I think I said tired rather than exhausted and your saying I shouldn't be doesn't change the fact that I am.
I don't have a long commute by MN standards and I'm active through most of my commute.

"It does sound a bit like you are looking for justification for “not feeling like a success”, and that the only answers you ‘ll accept are “success was handed to me on a plate, there was no effort required, total lottery."

If that was what I wanted to hear, I wouldn't have asked the question.

OP, do you think you might be depressed or have some other mental health issue?

The reason I say this (gently), is that your posts seem quite negative. Your interaction with everyone (Ive actually RTFT) has been very flat as well. Ive seen no comical turn of phrase, wry humour, wit or even an emoji to give us a glimpse as to how pleasant or not it might be to work with you.

I tend to find that people who ‘get on’ and make a success of themselves are charming and have a likeability factor. Even people who’re a bit shit will go far if they’re well liked.

Just something to think about.

your saying I shouldn't be doesn't change the fact that I am

I mean this quite seriously: that isn’t normal if you have a short commute, no toddlers in the house etc and are otherwise healthy. Assuming no other health issues, have you had your thyroid/iron levels checked recently? Are you sleeping ok?

Obviously no need to justify yourself, it’s none of my business why you are so tired. But you should be able to do your job, finish at 5:30 and still have energy left to do other things in the evening unless there’s another reason.

Also, putting in a lot of hours and putting your job before your personal life.
I’ve worked for a couple of high-spending IT consultancies and their high flyers are the ones who put in 70 hour weeks every week, and will get on a plane every Sunday lunchtime and not get back until the following Saturday morning.

Knowing that you'll be ok if this particular thing or route fails. Either because you have financial security or emotional resilience. Emotional resilience is probably a combination of nature and nurture.

I believe Caitlin Moran, roughly you’re only as good as the man you’re with. You have a lazy arsed partner you don’t stand a chance.

I wouldn’t go quite that far, but having a dynamic partner does spur you on to achieve as well. You see other people around you who are successful, and it becomes your norm.

Equally if everyone around you just sits in front of the TV all day it must be hard to say that you want more than that, and hard to know what route to take to get there.

Confidence is a biggie. In my first few jobs, the people owning/running the firms were professionally excellent, highly technically competent, etc. That meant I respected them and they were good role models, but at the same time, I felt out of my league as I believed I would never be as good as them, so it kind of blunted my enthusiasm and aspirations. That all changed in my last job. The two guys running the firm were really pathetically hopeless - they were incompetent in so many ways - they were honest enough and didn't rip off their clients, but the standard of service was very poor, yet they were still successful! Seeing that inspired me and give me the confidence to set up my own business, which I've been doing for the last 20 years. So sometimes, you gain the confidence by seeing just how crap other successful people are and having that light bulb moment to realise that you are good enough and can do better. Sometimes, it's not a good thing to work with geniuses as that may undermine your own confidence.

Someone asked how to make it if they have no qualifications? I think (my experience so far in adult education) is that lecturers/ tutors really want you to succeed. If your goal is to get your maths gcse, start with a lower level maths qualification, get your confidence going. Ask questions, if you dont understand, ask. The teachers need a good pass rate too so its in their interest to pass you. Dont worry about any rolling of the eyes, any negative comments, just make the best of the opportunity. If its easier, keep things close to your chest so you dont let negative people crush you. Keep going. Try new things.

"I believe Caitlin Moran, roughly you’re only as good as the man you’re with. You have a lazy arsed partner you don’t stand a chance."

And if you're single? Most people at least start off single.

"OP, do you think you might be depressed or have some other mental health issue? "

I'm the happiest I've been in years.

"your saying I shouldn't be doesn't change the fact that I am

I mean this quite seriously: that isn’t normal if you have a short commute, no toddlers in the house etc and are otherwise healthy. Assuming no other health issues, have you had your thyroid/iron levels checked recently? Are you sleeping ok?

Obviously no need to justify yourself, it’s none of my business why you are so tired. But you should be able to do your job, finish at 5:30 and still have energy left to do other things in the evening unless there’s another reason."

I think you've misunderstood. All I said was that I'm tired at the end of the week, not exhausted. I can do other things. I go to the gym a couple of times a week and do voluntary stuff. What I meant was that I couldn't work the long hours other people are saying they've done or have a second job.

When I was younger I did loads of OU courses. I did a course last year with the local uni and decided after that one that I really don't have the energy for a full-on course after work.

Thyroid and iron levels are OK according to the doctor, although I'm sceptical because a year ago I gave blood and was extremely tired for a couple of months afterwards so I suspect there is something there, but the dr can't find it. I have a thread about this and another one about how tired I felt when I was doing my last course.
Still, I'm generally in good health.