If the woman wants to keep the baby and the man doesn't, who, in your opinion takes precedence?

[bearfood]

Just that really. Wondering what people's opinions are. Woman wants to keep it, man doesn't, neither will change their mind. What's the solution? Just looking for peoples thoughts really. Am very fragile so please be kind. So as not to drip feed, relationship of 6 months, pregnancy unplanned, couple love each other but can't agree and will probably break up if she keeps it (from what he has said). Pregnancy is 8 weeks along. Man wanted the baby at first then changed his mind. Woman has always wanted it from day one.

Should expand sorry as people can't see into my brain!

Romania under Caecescua and in following years
When the pictures of the children in Orphanages came out

It is, unfortunately for men, the women's choice. It can't be any other way.

However men should not have casual sex but women can do what they like ? Usual hyperbole from certain posters.

MakeAHouse

I assume you don't know any women who are carrying the emotional trauma of an abortion they regret. Why should any woman endure that for the convenience of the man? Further, if he is absolved of any financial obligations it will invariably fall to the state, aka the taxpayer, to support the child. No thank you.

Fairness arguments are irrelevant - biology is not “fair” because it is always the woman’s body that carries, births and (possibly) feeds the baby. She is the only one who can and should make the decision about continuing a pregnancy. There is no way to make this “fair” on the man and the sooner men deal with that fact the better

"However men should not have casual sex but women can do what they like"

Not a single person has said this.

So all those saying the man should have worn a condom, if he had and the woman still got pregnant would he then have the right in your eyes to say she should have an abortion if he didn't want to be a father. No, I bet you would STILL say it is her choice.

These sort of situations are shit for men who are forced onto being fathers. As I say, women get two chances not to be a mother (abstain from sex or have an abortion) but men only get one by your warped logic...

“women get two chances not to be a mother (abstain from sex or have an abortion) but men only get one by your warped logic...”

Well yes, that’s just how biology works. Men just have to deal with that, there isn’t a way to make it “fair” on them, and any attempts usually result in something misogynistic happening

It's biology, not warped logic, fgs. Men and women are not the same biologically. Treating men and women fairly doesn't mean treating them exactly the same, it means recognising their biological differences and treating them appropriately as a result.

Men have two choices walk away or wear a condom.

This isn't hidden, it's not a big surprise, they know the rules. If you don't like the risk don't play the game. That's life.

MakeAHouse you agree with forced abortion up to 24 weeks on teh decison of the father
Becasue biology isn;t fair to men, apparently.

It's not others whose logic is warped!

Please advise what to do about girls like the one in the example I gave. Do you have any other approach for them?

I'm a granny. The woman must have the choice, it's her body, the man just has to accept it and grow a pair.

Not a single person has said this.

Errrr they did so they said that men should not have sex unless they are prepared to be a parent. That is what you are saying. That is not casual sex.

No. They're suggesting not having PIV sex unless being aware and accepting of the chances of becoming a parent. If you really really can't countenance the idea of becoming a parent then yes, perhaps avoiding casual PIV sex might be for the best! Whether a man or a woman, obviously.

This isn't hidden, it's not a big surprise, they know the rules. If you don't like the risk don't play the game. That's life.

Women know this too, so only women comfortable with abortion should engage in sexual intercourse (even with contraception) for non baby making purposes right ?

I think the emphasis shouldn’t be on the mother rights but on what is best for a child. If I were the OP and my daughter were asking my advice I would strongly recommend an abortion. The father has already shown himself to be immature and manipulative. Why on earth would you want to inflict him on a child. You would be setting the child up for a lot of possible heartache and disruption with a father like that.

I’d suggest the OPs daughter wait until she is older and either in a secure and happy relationship or in a position where she purposefully chooses to be a single parent.

Outcomes for children born to teenage mothers and for the teen mothers themselves are considerably worse than those of children and mothers where the mother has been older. For example ASD is more common in children born to teen mothers and teen mothers are far more likely to suffer from PND.

elon well yes, of course.

Who said otherwise?

inky yes who gives a shite what happens to the woman? After all, she’s just a woman.

they said that men should not have sex unless they are prepared to be a parent.

No one should have sex unless they are prepared to take the consequences of a contraceptive failure. Every time you have sex you run the risk of a pregnancy, that is just fact.

It isn't fair to men, no. But there is no way to make it fair.

I guess it's the same argument where a woman wants a child (before conception) but the man doesn't. In that instance what the man wants trumps what the woman wants.

In these instances there is no compromise is there? There are only 2 possible decisions that can be made and someone doesn't get what they want.

I think scenarios like this should be discussed in sex ed, to bring home to both males and females the realism of the consequences of their choices.

Inky a mum forcing her DD to have an abortion is as bad as a parter forcing a woman to have an abortion.

What of the mental health of the woman who is forced to abort, at 18 she's very young herself, you say think of the child, the emotional welfare of the pregnant woman is of little interest to you?

I also find it a bit iffy to say that this child will have a terrible life > statistically this is linked to lots of other factors than the age of the mother. If she's well supported etc then of course it may well all be fine. Saying you must have an aboriton because statistically if you have a baby its life will be awful is, well. Not helpful.

Women know the risk and they know the consequences. They know they choice will be their choice. Men also know the rules.

That's biology, it's not fair and neither is life.

If you don't want to be a parent, non penetrative sex, wear a condom or no sex.

@Makeahouse. Just on the offchance you're not a troll, let's go back over the legal situation of abortion in Britain. There is no right to abortion under British law even if both parents agree they do not want to continue the pregnancy. Abortion is only legal if continuing the pregnancy poses grave risk to the pregnant woman's mental or physical health.

In practice, 'risk to mental health' is interpreted widely enough to allow abortion to any woman who does not want to continue the pregnancy, on the argument that it is deeply traumatic to carry to term an unwanted pregnancy. This argument does not apply to a wanted pregnancy. The bottom line is - if the woman wishes to continue the pregnancy and the man wants her to abort, abortion is illegal under British law.

Oh, OP. I feel horribly sorry for everyone in this situation. No really good outcomes, unfortunately, but she needs to get rid of the BF, whatever she decides.

Women know the risk and they know the consequences.

Do they though? MN has plenty of threads from women who have discovered that they are pregnant but who really don't want to be because they aren't ready - they obviously didn't consider the risks before having sex.

Reading some of the horror stories on here about how parents use contact or custody almost as weapons I would be very concerned about this young woman being tied to this man for the next 18 years. She is so young and this man will potentially be very involved in her entire adult life, even if she goes on to get married to someone else and has other children this man will be involved in her life possibly dictating how her family arranges Christmas or goes on holiday or where they can decide to live or where the child goes to school etc. Considering how he is behaving now that prospect would scare the life out of me.

Her body, her choice.