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Original poster

If the woman wants to keep the baby and the man doesn't, who, in your opinion takes precedence?

274 replies

bearfood · 31/12/2018 00:17

Just that really. Wondering what people's opinions are. Woman wants to keep it, man doesn't, neither will change their mind. What's the solution? Just looking for peoples thoughts really. Am very fragile so please be kind. So as not to drip feed, relationship of 6 months, pregnancy unplanned, couple love each other but can't agree and will probably break up if she keeps it (from what he has said). Pregnancy is 8 weeks along. Man wanted the baby at first then changed his mind. Woman has always wanted it from day one.

OP posts:
littlecloudling · 31/12/2018 16:56

Woman's choice, but if the father wasn't keen then that would influence my choice.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 31/12/2018 16:56

Of course women know the risks. We are the ones waiting desperately for our periods to come, splashing out on pg tests etc.

Clearly we know the risks. Like men however we aren't perfect. And if there are consequences,then they fall massively to us. Which is why it is our decision.Pregnancy occurs inside our bodies.

Moussemoose · 31/12/2018 16:57

Men and women don't consider the risks but I think most adults are aware that sex can lead to babies.

Most adults struggle relating facts to risks. They know the facts but can't assess the risks. This phenomenon also explains Donald Trumps election and Brexit.

Interested in this thread?

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Families
IdblowJonSnow · 31/12/2018 17:00

How could it be anything other than your choice?! Keep it. He may come around but don't bank on it. And anyone threatening to leave/dump you isn't worth having anyway. But it must be a massive shock for him that said. Good luck op.

BertrandRussell · 31/12/2018 17:00

Yes, it’s unfair to men. Makes a change.....

Heatherjayne1972 · 31/12/2018 17:02

If the man ‘knows ‘ he doesn’t want babies then it’s his responsibility to abstain or get it snipped or wear something No one is forcing anyone into parenthood - he has choices too
If the woman is pregnant she alone decides whether or not to continue the pregnancy

NothingOnTellyAgain · 31/12/2018 17:03

It's unfair to men hence milennia of patriarchal control because why should mere females get to decide if / when / who to have have babies with.

And still it continues in the same theme to a lesser or greater extent all over the world.

InkyAndBinky · 31/12/2018 17:03

NothingOnTellyAgain
I think you need to read my post more carefully. 🙄 Nowhere have I said the OP should force her daughter to have an abortion. That’s a ridiculous suggestion. I actually wrote ”If I were the OP and my daughter were asking my advice I would strongly recommend an abortion”.

Also I didn’t say the child would have a ‘terrible life’. You’ve made that up. 😡. I said that outcomes for children born to teen Mums are considerably worse than those born to non-teen Mums.

brusselsproutfan · 31/12/2018 17:03

Woman's choice definitely

Yabbers · 31/12/2018 17:05

He’s not being forced to be a father. He’s only a sperm donor in that situation. He can walk away if he wants.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 31/12/2018 17:07

I read it ! That's why I responded.

"I think the emphasis shouldn’t be on the mother rights but on what is best for a child. If I were the OP and my daughter were asking my advice I would strongly recommend an abortion. The father has already shown himself to be immature and manipulative. Why on earth would you want to inflict him on a child. You would be setting the child up for a lot of possible heartache and disruption with a father like that.

I’d suggest the OPs daughter wait until she is older and either in a secure and happy relationship or in a position where she purposefully chooses to be a single parent.

Outcomes for children born to teenage mothers and for the teen mothers themselves are considerably worse than those of children and mothers where the mother has been older. For example ASD is more common in children born to teen mothers and teen mothers are far more likely to suffer from PND."

This is pretty strong stuff and I would think a mother could quite easily coerce, sorry persude... suggest? her 18yo DD into an abortion with statements and suggestions like these.

I paraphrased what you said obv but that was the thrust of it. Dad is horrible, he will be "inflcited" on the child, it will be awful for child, statistical risk of MHPs, ASD etc.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 31/12/2018 17:09

"I said that outcomes for children born to teen Mums are considerably worse than those born to non-teen Mums."

Statistically! With a range of factors some of which age are a proxy for etc
It is not absolute, if an 18yo (maybe 19yo when the baby is due) is well supported then it's not a fact that the outcome will be worse. That is an average not a given for each case!

TwistedStitch · 31/12/2018 17:10

Women know this too, so only women comfortable with abortion should engage in sexual intercourse (even with contraception) for non baby making purposes right ?

No, both sexes need to be aware of the risks of sex. For a woman the risk is she gets pregnant and will either need to undergo an abortion or go through a pregnancy and have a child. For a man the risk is that once he ejaculates he loses the right to determine what happens to any pregnancy that may occur and may have to pay financial support for a child he didn't want. That's just biology, it can never be equal.

InspirationCame · 31/12/2018 17:11

If a woman aborts against her wishes for a man, they will usually break up anyway.

pinkhorse · 31/12/2018 17:11

This issue has ruined my family. My sister got pregnant and the father didn't want to keep the baby. Dsis went ahead anyway and her dd is now 9. The father has never paid any maintenance or had anything to do with the dd. The dd now has issues around men, father not wanting her etc.
Dsis has tried to claim for maintenance but has never got anywhere.
I personally think it's a joint decision. He's been harassed for money when he said from day one he didn't want the child. They both took the risk of having sex (obviously) but only the woman gets a say in whether the child is kept or not. I don't think that's fair.

ConstantCraving · 31/12/2018 17:14

Please don't generalise about teen mums. I was a teenage mum and went on to have my lovely son who is now 30 and has a successful career - as, in fact, have I. This was partly due to the love and support of my mum & my own determination to succeed. With regards to ASD I had another child at the respectable age of 40 who has ASD and is also truly amazing.

WhatsUpHun · 31/12/2018 17:15

Says if she keeps it and they break up he still wants to be involved with the baby. Wtf is that about?

surely this is what you want? a father who is not running away from his responsibilities? he doesnt want a child, but is willing to do his share? would he be a better man if he said he didnt want anything to do with the child??
i havent seen anything else here about controlling, he said he doesnt want a child, thats not abnormal

ALongHardWinter · 31/12/2018 17:18

The woman,of course. And if the situation was reversed,i.e. she didn't want the baby but he did,I would say exactly the same. Her body,her choice.

Oswin · 31/12/2018 17:21

Pinkhorse how would you make it fair then? What would be your solution?
I'm intrigued how your sister having a child has ruined your family?

TooTrueToBeGood · 31/12/2018 17:22

My god, the lack of basic logic in this thread is staggering. For those of you effectively saying the man should have the right to insist on a termination, have you actually thought through how that would work? Are you honestly proposing some fucked-up Orwellian nightmare where women are dragged screaming and kicking against their will into abortion clinics? It can only ever be the woman's decision and any man worthy of the label should accept that, whether he thinks it's fair or not, actions have consequences and taking responsibility is part of being a grown up.

Ribbonsonabox · 31/12/2018 17:26

The woman. The mans choice is whether or not to ejaculate inside a woman... that always Carrie's a risk of pregnancy even with contraception. If he does that then he accepts the risk that the woman may fall pregnant and then it will out of his hands. An abortion is not an undoing of a pregnancy... the woman will have been pregnant she will have to deal with that and the physical and emotional impact on her whether or not she has an abortion... it's something which is entirely happening to her body at that point and therefor a man should have no say in that decision. His say came when he decided to take the risk of the sex itself. Now that is done the role of any decent man is to support the choice the woman he has impregnated wishes to make.

He is not being 'made a father against his will's he has made himself a father the minute the egg was fertilised... what hes cross about is that you wont have a medical procedure that means he can just forget about it... but you wont be able to forget about as it was inside your body whatever you decide to do and you have to go through the physical consequences in some respect whether that be giving birth or having the abortion. I think any man who closes their eyes to this is a coward and an idiot. The damage is already done, having an abortion does not make the whole thing dissapear like it never happened, it's a serious procedure for a woman... this makes me really angry he sounds like an absolute wanker

WombatChocolate · 31/12/2018 17:26

It is your choice whether to have the baby.

It is his choice whether to stay with you or not.

It may be that your choice has an impact on his choice. Many people break up because a woman chooses to remain pregnant or chooses not to.

Is it wrong for a man to say he will leave if a woman has the baby or does not have the baby? I don’t actually think so, because as a woman has a right to choose whether to have a child, a man and a woman have choices over relationships. Not all men want to be active fathers. They can opt out of this, but they need to accept their biological responsibility and financial implications - this is the consequence of having sex, not the consequence of choosing to be an active father.

Op does have a choice to make if man isn’t willing to be with her and be father. Most people will say ‘choose baby’ and ‘bastard’ for giving an ultimatum. However in the end Op does have choice about if this pregnancy continues and not the mans decision to be with her. I would say there is no definitive answer to what she should choose, but the pregnancy issue is her choice. She may strongly want this baby now she is pregnant - and if that is the case may have to accept man will leave, and if their desires about baby are far apart, she may need to accept this, and sadness about it is allowed. It would be okay to choose to end pregnancy if that were her choice - some women will choose the man over baby and that is a choice too. Coercion should absolutely not be involved and the woman needs to be sure about her choice either way. And it is difficult and those who simply say ‘dump the bastard’ fail to recognise the complexity of feelings about babies and men.

Personally, I would want a man to want the same as myself about a pregnancy. However, this world is full of less than ideals. In an ideal world Op would have become pregnant at the time she chose and probably when both her and a partner wanted it. She now finds herself pregnant unexpectedly and wanting to go ahead. These things happen and we don’t always know how we will feel. The way op and boyfriend feel isn’t the same. Either one needs to shift position or they won’t be able to be together. That might be the end result. Op certainly has the choice over pregnancy and lack of clarity on this suggests some possible attempt at coercion from boyfriend.
She needs to tell him it will be her choice.

DRE56322 · 31/12/2018 17:31

Man's view is that he is being forced to become a father against his will if woman keeps it. Does anyone agree with that?

No. He presumably knows that sex may lead to pregnancy. If it was unprotected, he is an idiot, and if contraception failed, he's unfortunate but that's the risk you take.

MargueritaPink · 31/12/2018 17:31

My god, the lack of basic logic in this thread is staggering

That is such an exaggeration. The vast majority of posters have said it is her choice.

thebaronetofcockburn · 31/12/2018 17:32

She's 18, not 13. She has a loving, supportive family. She's not 'so young'.

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