If the woman wants to keep the baby and the man doesn't, who, in your opinion takes precedence?

[bearfood]

Just that really. Wondering what people's opinions are. Woman wants to keep it, man doesn't, neither will change their mind. What's the solution? Just looking for peoples thoughts really. Am very fragile so please be kind. So as not to drip feed, relationship of 6 months, pregnancy unplanned, couple love each other but can't agree and will probably break up if she keeps it (from what he has said). Pregnancy is 8 weeks along. Man wanted the baby at first then changed his mind. Woman has always wanted it from day one.

I agree with every PP, and my heart breaks for you and your DD, bearfood (is this the first unanimous thread on MN?). It's a nasty situation.

However, just to be controversial. I do think if a man thinks precautions are taken and have failed and the woman chooses to keep, then the man can not be complained about if he doesn't turn out to be a great dad. This doesn't make him any less of a prick, but I do understand it.

The woman trumps the man BUT in such circumstances it would be be right to not insist he be listed as the father or pay child support. Men need to take protection seriously !

Was there an explicit agreement that any accidental pregnancy through contraceptive failure would be aborted?

If so, then yes, he's being forced into parenthood that both parties agreed would never happen, and he can walk away with a clean conscience

I've seen some daft posts on MN and these 3 are amongst them.

As long as the baby is inside her body, the mother's opinion is the only one that matters.
This is especially true if you are not in a long-term committed relationship, but even if you are true partners, it is still the mother's decision.

The o lot opinion that will ever matter is the woman's. Man has no choice once baby is conceived, choice is 100% woman's. Mans only choice is to not have sex or have a vasectomy

Just musing on a couple of boyfriends I had in my early 20s who were pretty laissez-faire about contraception. They didn't even ask if I was on the pill (I was; I've never been so meticulous in my life about anything). Like a PP said, how weird for them to be sloppy about something with such lifechanging consequences.

Perhaps because I am pro choice they assumed that if I got pregnant we'd have a grave talk over a cup of tea, then they'd nobly accompany me to the abortion clinic at lunchtime, I'd sniffle into a Kleenex for a couple of hours after while they kindly patted my shoulder then next morning everything would be alright just like nothing ever happened.

I have an obs/gynae friend who has always been massively pro choice....and she says the grief and guilt that women who had an abortion they didn't really want follow them for years and it's heartbreaking to see.

I think quite a few men might see that most women are prochoice and think that means that abortion is not really a big deal to us. I know some women get over it easily but for me I think an abortion I wanted would be hard to get over and one I didn't would be a massive and perhaps lifelong gutwrenching headfuck.

Either way, the relationship will most likely end. Having a baby after 5 mins together rarely ends well either way so she may as well do what is going to make her happy. It is ALWAYS the woman who has the say. Always.

Having said that though, very few pregnancies are accidental so probs not the smartest choice at this point in time. He clearly didn't react as expected BUT I have no sympathy for a man who doesn't ensure he is protected if pregnancy is not something he is prepared for. No point acting the injured party, he's also made a choice here.

She should keep the baby amd ditch the man.

How old are they and what was the contraception failure?

A contract that man has no physical or financial responsibility may be best based on the women's body, women's choice argument. Though admittedly my initial thought was abortion as the child doesn't exist yet.

I just wanted to add that I’m glad your DD has you as a supportive mum to her. I really feel for you both. Xx

Her body her choice.

The mans choice over when he becomes a father ends with his orgasm.

And he absolutely should take responsibility for his choices, any idiot knows that even with condoms there's a chance of pregnancy, he could have full control of his fertility by not ejaculating inside women.

People seem to dish this advice out to women who want abortions who don't want to be pregnant but it's rarely dished out to men in order to avoid becoming a parent.

The woman!

Was there an explicit agreement that any accidental pregnancy through contraceptive failure would be aborted?

If so, then yes, he's being forced into parenthood that both parties agreed would never happen, and he can walk away with a clean conscience.

If you read the OP he wanted a baby and has now changed his mind.

Sex makes babies. A man doesn't who want a baby doesn't have sex. Simple.

He doesn't get to bully women into abortions wether she agrees before sex or not. A man doing this is a cunt and I hope his conscience is anything but clear and keeps him awake at night!

Such a new relationship probably won’t cope with the demands and pressures of a baby anyway. She should make her decision based on her being a single parent.

The woman of course. However I don’t think the man should stick around if he does not want to be a father, he still has to pay though.

The woman has complete control over what happens to her body.

The man needs to understand that an abortion is not a reset button for his convenience.

Woman's body, woman's choice. Obviously though be prepared to do it alone. He should pay but you can't force him to have contact.

You do have to also think about how the child will feel knowing their father isn't interested in them. I had a very absent father growing up and it has affected my adult relationships.

Those of you thinking the man is a prick...he has said he is definitely staying with her if they abort, he 'doesn't know' if he is staying with her if she keeps it. BUT. Says if she keeps it and they break up he still wants to be involved with the baby. Wtf is that about? I just don't get it.

I'd call him much worse than a prick. He's a disgrace to my gender and I'd happily bury him and every other pathetic shitstain like him in a shallow grave. He is emotionally blackmailing his partner to make possibly the hardest decision a woman can make. That's lower than scum.

Your daughter needs to see him for what he is. Make her decision for herself, and herself alone. He has shown his true character and she shouldn't want such a worthless piece of shit to have any part in her life whatever she decides.

Man's view is that he is being forced to become a father against his will if woman keeps it

If he did not want to become a father he should have either used a condom regardless of whatever contraception the woman was on, or had a vasectomy

On a slighty different topic, it may be prudent to not have his name on the birth certificate.

Absolutely the woman's decision. A decent man would respect that. You, as her mother, have a tough job. If you encourage her in either direction, she may blame you at some point. PP are right, give her the tools to make the decision, but let her make it.
Good luck .

Agree with everyone here, and that you're being a great mum

In the last 2 years (single again after a marriage) I've been really surprised on several occasions that men - not just young but up to about 30 yrs old - haven't wanted to use condoms despite not knowing if I'm on contraception or not.

Baffling!

We don't force women to have children they don't want, the woman has full choice to keep or not. The man doesn't so it would be better if they could sign away their rights and responsibilities when a situation like this occurs and the woman chooses to over ride. Would make things a little more equal.

He is being forced to be a parent when he doesn't want to. Not ideal for the child in any shape or form.

It's the woman who is to go through with things either way - abortion or keeping pregnancy. It's the woman who has to deal with all psychological, physical, and financial implications of this. It's relatively easy for a man to just say nope, and not bother to provide. It's all on the woman. Her body, her mind, her choice.

"I've been really surprised on several occasions that men - not just young but up to about 30 yrs old - haven't wanted to use condoms despite not knowing if I'm on contraception or not"

^^This. Lust/desire for full contact sex beats preventing a life being made with them every time. It's because they know full well they can just walk away/leave responsibility for contraception up for he woman with no real consequences for them.

Her decision, but she needs to make it based on it being likely she'll be a single mum. They sound very young and he sounds ready to walk.