How do I get my house tidy?

[whatamessitallis]

My house is a terrible mess, I don't know how to get to grips with it.

It's got to the point I just don't know how to make an impact on it. But I need to, this is crisis point.

I've always struggled with keeping on top of housework.
But this last year or so, I've been away a lot (elderly dad has needed looking after and mum died earlier this year of cancer).

The house has got into such a state, I can't seem to impact it. Plus I find it hard to know where to start. I work from home, supporting a family member's business. I'm good at my work, but I find it takes me longer to do than it would a "normal" person and that makes it harder to have enough time to get to grips with the house.

DH is unwell and depressed. The environment is making him worse and the depression kicks off his ailments. He's often in bed in pain. He can't bend as his back hurts. He's in a negative spiral and I'm scared what's going to happen. The house really isn't helping. I suspect he may leave soon.

I paid for a de-cluttering person to come help me, and she's been coming once a week for a couple of months. But I'm running out of money to do that, it's not cheap. We do a room at a time, together but the house is so bad, we only managed to do half the front room in 4 hours this week. And I haven't been about to keep on top of it enough between visits for it to make a massive difference. De-cluttering people work with you, they don't do it for you, and that's exactly what I needed from her, someone to do it with me. I'm basically paying her to be my friend! Really I need DP to do it with me, but he's in too much pain and we're not communicating well at the moment, so it's not going to happen. He does all the cooking & washing up instead as he can do that standing up.

The house is a bad as a hoarder's house. I'm not a hoarder - I don't cling on to stuff. But I have real problems with organisation and procrastination. I think maybe I have ADHD (I'n going for an assessment in January). I fit the profile anyway.

The kids are getting older and really want to have friends round - they used to, but not in the last 18 months, since it got so bad. I won't let anyone in. There's only so many times I can take the kids to softplay or whatever. They want to be able to play at home.

How do I get out of this situation? Can anyone give me any advice on what to do?

I tried going for counselling for procrastination, didn't make a difference. DH and I went for couples counselling, didn't help address the communication break down at all.

I need to know how to get on top of it. I tend to get very focused on things e.g. my work, and it's hard to switch focus.

I find it really hard to stay on task when cleaning. I think possibly because I feel so much guilt about it, I beat myself up while tidying, if I'm doing it alone. But I can't keep paying someone to be with me! I need to work out how to do it. Maybe I need to make it easier for myself by trying to make it fun? Does that work for people?

Maybe I should do it and listen to a podcast or something. I dunno.

What works for you? Is there anyone here who's really terrible at this kind of thing but manages to get it done and stay on top of it? How do you do it?

Depression is hard on everyone. I'm sorry for your tough times at the moment, they will pass, well done for holding it together.

Take care, best wishes for the new day. Keep asking for the help you all need. But for now try & get some sleep Xx

Thanks Blackbag. I will.

I was going to write something else, got distracted and now I have no idea what it was. A sure sign it's bedtime!

Get a skip.

I KNOW it sounds drastic and I am not normally the chuck-it-all-in-a-landfill type but honestly, just do it.

Last year we downsized from a large house with garage and garden shed to small apartment with virtually no storage (long story) and despite WEEKS and WEEKS of diligent charity shop donating, recycling, careful sorting etc, we still had far too much stuff after moving day and hired a skip ourselves. We filled it within a day. It's amazing how much you are able to let go of when you absolutely HAVE to. If I'm honest, I don't feel great about it but we can actually use the rooms we do have now and that's not a small thing to be able to say.

@whatamessitallis

Next time your DH mentions suicide pick up the phone and call 999.

Either he is or he isn't suicidal and he has no right to play this cruel game with you if he is not.

Ask for an ambulance to take him for a MH evaluation. If it turns out he is suicidal, he will get the help he needs. If he is not, then you need to make it completely clear that he is never to pull that stunt again. You are not put on this earth for him to dump on.

Please don't live like this.

I have been in this situation, with my exH. There are many reasons apart from the suicide threats why he is 'ex'H, but that was one of them.

As to where to start - start with your kitchen.

You will feel more upbeat and positive about the rest of the work that lies ahead when you can complete your work in the kitchen without having to work around mess, or stuff that shouldn't be there, or old stuff that is just taking up space.

I would start by literally clearing everything in a room into bin bags.... everything!!!
Dump it all in another room with labels of what room it came from.
Deep clean the whole room
Then bring back one bag at a time and go through it place back in room/dump/charity

This is how I clean out my dressing room but it may not work for everyone.

I have ADHD (recently diagnosed) and now realise why it's so hard to keep on top of the house with this condition.

ADHDers don't do anything without reward and urgency. So I have to give myself exactly that. I have to set myself a timer and a goal which is hard to meet. It also needs to be in short bursts with a reward at the end.

So for example I give myself 15 mins to clean xyz and at the end I will allow myself to have a piece of cake and a cup of tea.

During that time you just remove all distractions. So ask husband to not talk to you unless emergency. Remove phone or put on do not disturb. ADHDers brains are distracted very easily.

Oh and if you are diagnosed the medication does help with this sort of stuff!

Oh @whatamessitallis you’re in such a difficult situation. Don’t be too hard on yourself.

On the bed though, I know you don’t want to invite anyone in but for the sake of an hour could you not got a handyman type of person to come and help you do it? Shut every door to every room other than those he goes in and just go for it? Facebook local groups are great for finding these sorts of odd job people.

Mrscog thanks

I asked MN to delete the post about DH as I felt it was unfair on him. He is being really bloody hard work but I'd hate for anyone to recognise us from the thread as he is ill and it's just too personal.

I've just done a list of what I need to improve the house (included skip hire, various containers, new bed etc) and have put in for a transfer from my savings.

Spoke to skip company, they can deliver same day - eek! Thinking of ordering it for a week perhaps.

Bed's not happening today, with do some other task later and report back. Need to work now...

LeslieKnopefan that all sounds very familiar! Good tips, thanks :)

mathanxiety he doesn't so much say "I'm going to kill myself now" - my ex used to do that, and yes, I called 999 on him, partly to call his bluff although you can never be quite sure can you. And yes, it's one of the (many) reasons he's my ex.

But DH talks about it in general terms. He's told me that's what's been going through his mind when he can't sleep at night, when he's stewing on things, and that he's trying to fight against it. In arguments he gets angry about how all the stress is making him think such dark thoughts, but he's not actually saying he's going to go do it there and then. It's not a 999 situation. He's talking about his general state of mind, not an immediate threat. Or he says things like "I might as well go jump off a tall building" but he's not saying he's about to do it that moment. Still has the effect of making me feel I'm walking on eggshells and I really resent it.

He's talking to a counsellor about depression. Or he's meant to be - they didn't call him yesterday. When he's not in a rage, he does want to fix things. It's taken him a long time to come round to it, but he is managing his back pain better. He's recently given up smoking (which is huge), he's talking about stopping drinking completely for a while and taking up exercise to help fight the depression. This has all come from him. He's not an abusive arsehole, honest. He's not well. (Still acting like an arse though).

I'm not trying to simplify his problems but living in mess and disorganisation does play havoc for mental health it becomes an endless cycle.

The point is it certainly isn't helping and you may find that as this situation improves it will help him mentally to some degree

you may find that as this situation improves it will help him mentally to some degree

Yes, I hope so.

I can understand that there seems to be a difference between what your DH is saying - that he is turning it over in his mind, that he has dark thoughts - and an out and out threat, but it is all pressure on you, and it is something he is putting out there for you to remember at all times if you ever want to confront him about anything, or discuss something he might not want to discuss.

You end up walking on eggshells just as much with this more subtle variance on the subject of suicide.

So I would still make that call if he mentions it again.

You don't have to put up with rages. The fact that he has depression doesn't make it ok to inflict this on you or the family.

I suspect your DD would find it far easier to settle down at night if there were no rages, no blowing up at you when you try to get him to parent sensibly, no drinking. Having a parent there but not 'present' and contributing little is scary for children.

Can he call his counselor instead of waiting around for them to call him?

Thinking of you op
Good to have a list on the go i need to do the same! Wish i lived closer so i could come to your declutter party lol.x

Again, I've obviously given the wrong impression!

I'm not minimising the effect of DH's talk of suicide. It's really tough. But just putting that aside a minute....

He's a hands on dad not here but not 'present' and contributing little

When he's well, he takes the kids out lots. He does most of the cooking - and the washing up too (as he can do it standing up). We share bedtimes, he reads to them loads, he helps with homework. When I've had busy work periods and he hasn't, he's taken over bedtimes and a lot of the other child care so I can work. Other times I've done most of it so he can work. This is not a relationship where all the regular shit gets left to me. He doesn't have a lot of work right now and he's been doing loads of the child herding, including when I've been away.

He's very present, when not incapacitated with pain. But - right now, he's not sleeping, he's in pain and he's depressed. He can be short tempered with the kids and he refused to learn new techniques that might work better with them. He tells them off too much. They zone out on him as a consequence.

He's drinking little and often, not getting drunk in front of the kids. In fact I can't remember the last time I saw him drunk, full stop. He likes to have one or two, last thing at night, maybe 3 to 5 evenings a week, after the kids are in bed. It's significant he's talking about giving that up for a while as it means he finally accepts that such regular drinking may be affecting the depression even though he's not drinking what he would consider a lot.

When he's in pain, then yes he is here but not present. He can spend literally days in bed with a migraine or back pain.

Has he sought medical advice regarding his back? Would a gp, physiotherapist, osteopath or chiropractor help? Back pain can be hard core and completely consuming. It's awful, I've suffered from it myself over the years. I think if he managed to get the pain under control or on a treatment plan, his rages might not be as bad.

I have a friend with a similar problem. First of all, when she's down, she shops - bringing more stuff she doesn't need and adding it to her clutter.

Her biggest problem is clothes, they're everywhere, but she doesn't have a system of washing, drying and putting away and she doesn't have storage for her to put them in.

I've tried helping, but everything is needed, she has trouble letting go of stuff and it's making her miserable. I find it frustrating, trying to help her.

It's just who she is, I will not judge her for it, she's the most lovely person. We are all flawed in some way or another.

Just be ruthless and get rid of a black bag of clutter a day. Start in the living room but don't just move crap from one place to another, get it out of your house.

Good luck op. 💐

Spells in bed alternate with spells when he is up, and when he is out with them he goes from shouty to shrugging his shoulders - this on-again-off-again stuff confuses children and leads to feelings of insecurity.

Then there are apparently rages too.

Children see everything and they absorb everything.

I just wonder how much you are willing to set aside, and how much you are able to set aside, before the stress of it all really gets to you, and ultimately why you are setting this or that aspect of what he does aside. Are you hesitating to look at the big picture all at once?

To echo TheBaltictriangle, what is he himself doing about getting treatment for the back pain and the migraines - and could he have called the therapist who was supposed to call him?

maths, I've been here many years and have seen you give some great advice over the years. I'm pretty pissed off with DH at the moment - but please understand you are putting me in the position of feeling I have to defend him because you are making assumptions about him and me that just aren't true. And I feel I have to correct them, I've obviously given the wrong impression.

It seemed to me you in your previous post you were going down the road of assuming he's a drunk, layabout, angry man who shirks his responsibilities. He's none of those things.

Has he sought help? Yes, he's done everything on Baltic's list bar one (and that's the next step), and also others not mentioned. He's done years worth of physio. After more than a year on one regime, he saw a Dr who said his injury had been misunderstood and the physio he was doing wasn't ever going to work. He sent him to the specialist instead, and we had high hopes, but that hasn't sorted it either.

He's prescribed strong pain killers and is in pain every day. He was awful about asking for help when he first needed it and tbh I feel resentful about that, as if he'd had the back seen to at the beginning we might not be here. But he's now understood that he needs to make lifestyle changes to tackle underlying causes. That he can't just grin and bear it and wait for it to go away, which was his approach to life before, and had worked for him pretty much until this point.

But ultimately, although it started with an injury, the ongoing pain is strongly related to stress and depression. Back pain often has a psychological element and it's clear for DH that it's linked to stress. He has other health issues and he also discovered last year that he has an underlying condition, that makes him prone to depression. This is now being treated although it could take some time. He's also got several other things going on that don't help his mental state such as multiple bereavements in recent years and not having regular work. Not to mention the state of our relationship and the house.

Regular work would make a huge difference I'm sure, but his industry has taken an absolute battering since the economic downturn and there's just isn't the work. He's picking up less skilled work and work in other sectors where he can. I'm not making excuses - but this is certainly a factor.

He's not an angry man by nature, or at least he never was. I always knew him as gentle, fun to be with, the life and soul of a party. He's kind, generous and much loved. He does like a drink at parties and celebrations (although he's happy not to if he's driving us), and he's the opposite of an angry drunk - it makes him silly and playful.

For the first 5 years we were together, we didn't argue once. Not once. I thought this was a good thing at the time, but I can now see it was desperately unhealthy as he suppresses his emotions and desperately tries to avoid conflict.

He never criticises me. When we were at the counsellor, I was trying to encourage him to dare to criticise me! Because he keeps it all bottled up, and we never talk about things, and that's part of the problem. I suspect he does it as he's so scared of criticism of himself. Terrified. He tries to deflect it. He reinvents reality so he doesn't have to accept the criticism. And I've learnt why. If he does accept the criticism, then he falls into a pit of despair, where he's the worst person in the world. It's not rational. If he accepts he's in the wrong, he then self flagellates about what an awful person he is, which is no good to anyone. He seems unable to take criticism on the chin and move on. If he accepts it, it's proof to him that he's a terrible person. It means we can't discuss things and move on.

DH is in pain, and he's miserable. The outbursts of bad temper are a recent development, and yes, they're not acceptable. It might well be irreparable, I'm not blind to that. And yes, I worry desperately about the effect on the kids of all this.

But even with all this going on - the house is something I can and must do, regardless of the rest of it.

The organised mum method is fantastic and you can start with the boot camp.
Even if you spend 3 days on one room.
She has a website that tells you about it.
Also the Facebook group is good. So much support and there's been people on there in your position. www.theorganisedmum.blog/2017/06/26/1-week-boot-camp-for-when-youve-lost-control-of-the-housework/

Aw op, dont feel you have to explain anything.

Can i suggest a football card system? Tell OH you completely understand his pain/anxiety xyz but this vicious cycle he is in is not helping anyone. Need to find a way to get through this.

Propose a yellow card for him to say "im getting tetchy" to you without actually saying it. So u know to walk away.

And a red card for you to say "aye ok, you've had your few mins of ranting. Away out for a walk and gie me peace"

You might have tried something like that already but if not, might help just get through the day to day. I appreciate its a very simple idea, but maybe thats what it needs to be just now until he gets the right support?

Hi Whatamess, I’ve been following your thread and can see how much you’ve got going on.

I did notice that the post where you reported back on the hallway was more energised than other posts so maybe some small house wins will help you (and DH).

Do you have any chunks of time today? Maybe setting a timer and sorting as many clothes as you can in that time would work? You could report back and we’ll be your accountability!

The other thing that may or may not help is what I call the ‘do no harm strategy’ - when the house is a tip it’s so tempting to let it get worse because you can’t tackle it all and it just spirals. Even if you can just avoid it getting worse on those days, that’s a win. (For example if you make lunch, all the lunch stuff goes away even if you can’t tackle the rest of the kitchen). Sometimes I find while I’m doing that I naturally sort a few other things as I go, sometimes not, but at least you don’t end up feeling that it’s getting worse.

I can occasionally be found roaming the house muttering ‘do no harm’ when it gets busy. Realise that makes me sound crazy

Good luck and keep going...

to you, whatamessitallis
You have so much on your plate.

I really like comeagainforbigfudge's idea on how to approach conversations.
At the moment it seems you can't talk about anything you feel is important and you even have to be careful about throwaway remarks (the bank account for example, and when you tripped over the bed), but DH can say whatever he wants to you up to and including suicidal fixation and you are expected to absorb it and keep on going.

Maybe you could also use the yellow and red cards, so he would know that he is stepping on your toes when he starts to rage or rant or yell or engage in petulance or dump on you, and to filter his thoughts, cool his engines, and consider more helpful strategies.

I understand your hesitation to call 999 and your fears that a psych ward would not be therapeutic. But - and please forgive me for banging on about this - being dramatic, or maybe not dramatic, maybe sincere, about suicide at 1am, and talk of sectioning himself cannot just be left hanging there.

You say this is escalating, and you have described efforts on his part to reach out that have been either ineffectual (maybe he hasn't told the real story, maybe professionals are not really listening) or the help has been crap (phone therapy hasn't called/he has no number to call). Something has to change, or there will be more escalation.

I know from my own past experience that you may believe you can manage this, and that making changes yourself will effect a change in DH. There is no magic bullet in the form of a clean, tidy and functional house or a spouse who always says the right things, never shows emotion, never rocks the boat. My exH grew up in a house that could have appeared in magazines, not a thing out of place. Most of his siblings suffer from depression, as does he, along with a PD (or two).

Mental illness needs diagnosis and medication, and your DH is not getting that when he is dealing with locums who won't write a prescription and hit-or-miss therapy over the phone. You bending over backwards trying not to tip him into a spiral is only just about keeping the peace. Like the house, it's all just about ticking over, as long as you keep on running in place as fast as you can.

So next time there is talk of suicide and it goes on for a little while (three mentions) invite him to call the Samaritans to talk about it. If it continues or if he refuses, then call 999. This is a bigger thing than you can handle, and all the love and good intentions in the world are no match for medical qualifications.

It's not a cruel thing to call 999 and to have him evaluated and hopefully referred for proper help. He may end up on a psych ward where he will be stabilised, maybe diagnosed, maybe get a prescription and some follow up appointments. He may be referred for an appointment that will lead to diagnosis. I think you should try to accept that you did not cause the MH issue your DH has and you cannot control it or cure it. It's like the three Cs of dealing with someone who abuses alcohol or drugs.

................
Suggestion wrt getting the children out from under your feet:
Look up online babysitting/nanny/childcare services, and see if you can find someone mature and responsible to take the children out for activities for a whole day at the weekend. Maybe they could go to a soft play, then lunch, then to see an appropriate movie for the afternoon? You could stipulate a sitter with a car if activities would involve driving. It would involve money - the sitter plus the activities plus lunch for all three would cost you, certainly. But the advantage would be that you would have a deadline to work towards (the time they would all be back) and you would have them out of the way, barring unfortunate incidents that landed them back earlier than expected.

Or ask the children's teachers if they know anyone who might be willing to take the DCs on for a day of activities.

Can you ask the school to excuse DS from creative homework until the house is sorted and you have worked out something wrt care of your dad?

Doing a big clothes sort today - wish me luck!