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to tell my friend to sod off with her helpful husband!

895 replies

QwertyLou · 23/11/2018 03:08

Thanks for the amazing advice before & this is my last question on this party I promise (its on Sunday so it better be)!!

My son (nearly 4) is going through an arty-crafty stage. He loves painting more than anything. So I wasn't surprised when he announced he wanted to do painting "with my friends for my WHOLE party!"

So we're doing some painting at his party (15 mins or so), along with lots of other fun things. Just little plaster rockets and spaceships, one for each child to paint and they take it home.

When I mentioned this to a friend she made a horrified face... "Painting... for boys??" And recommended I scrap it for a football session, perhaps with the man from her son's party.

I hadn't even realised that painting was considered "un-manly" and boys were not supposed to enjoy it... is that a thing?

My son enjoyed the football session, but not enough to want the same thing. Plus it was an hour-long session - I'd have to scrap half the party! Which I explained to my friend.

Unbeknownst to me she gave my no. to Football Man who contacted me, so I explained myself again and thought that was it. But no.

Yesterday my friend announced that she has kindly lined up her husband ("John") to do a football activity "in parallel" with the painting. So her son and other boys can do football while anyone else is painting.

I said that of course John, would be welcome to play football with their son during the painting if they want. No child, boy or girl, will be compelled to paint a plaster rocket against their will! We'll be in the back garden with plenty of things to do.

But I really do not want John to announce an official "Come on kids line up over here!!" activity just as the painting is starting. The whole idea is to bring everyone (or most people) together for a quieter activity they can enjoy as a group - then we'll have the cake.

And my son is really excited about painting with his friends. I keep finding him in the kitchen, gazing longingly up at all the paint stuff. If they all race off to play football, it will defeat the whole purpose [delete](plus I'll be left with a mountain of plaster rockets)[delete].

I explained all this to my friend but she was having none of it.

She said John was more than happy to do it, it would be fun, it was important to let "boys be boys" and she knows it must be hard for me as a single mum to cater for boys, hence her lining up John.

We were both getting our sons into the car after nursery and she drove off after that.

So as it stands, John is "kindly" doing this official activity on Sunday.

I don't want him to, but what do I say to make that clear without offending anyone?

Part of me feels a bit ungrateful too. We single mothers of boys are constantly berated by society to ensure our sons have good male role models (GMRM) or they will turn into anti-social, drug-taking juvenile delinquents.

And lo and behold, here one is - a GMRM - volunteering something!
And am I gratefully accepting? No, I am saying no (trying to)!

OP posts:
tenredthings · 01/12/2018 14:38

It sounds disturbingly Iike he is trying to groom either you or your son, otherwise why the secret. Bet his wife had no idea about this visit or gift. It could be that having not had a dad in his life he wants to impose the father role on your son, or that he's after a bit or extra marital with you and thinks being the handyman with a gun is a turn on. Don't doubt your gut feeling on this.
I'd warn your son to never take a lift alone, get picked up from school/ nursery etc. by this man. I would warn the teachers. I think you should be as bland and uninteresting as possible around them, do not engage with her or him on any level, just be too busy if they try.

Bimwit · 01/12/2018 14:42

I'd move. Seriously. This man is sooo manipulative.

MyOtherProfile · 01/12/2018 14:45

I'm sure the secret was from his wife too. Why would he bother keeping a secret from the kids?

Graphista · 01/12/2018 15:23

I think if anything you're under reacting! I'd have called police I don't care what rank he is and said I've asked him to leave and he's refusing and I am feeling intimidated and harassed!

I'd be VERY surprised if this guy hasn't got a record of complaints against him.

"He's just letting you know he can do whatever he wants." What he's also doing without probably realising is letting you know he sees you as a threat! Otherwise he wouldn't feel the need to intimidate you.

At this point I think you'd be well advised to seek advice from your local police, even anonymously as this is getting quite worrying now. You're feeling unsafe enough to stay at your parents! He's chased you out your home!

What have your parents said?

CottonTailRabbit · 01/12/2018 18:21

Grooming, grooming, grooming. For what? Who cares? Shut it down the way you shut all grooming down:

No secrets If asked to keep it a secret tell everyone and tell them he asked you to keep it a secret but you don't do secrets.

Accept no gifts Drop the present back off at his house when he's not there with a very brief note saying you don't accept secret gifts. Accept nothing else ever again.

Accept no favours From him or Jane, however small. No matter how helpful the favour would be, do not accept.

Be rude and petty If you are uncomfortable about something but feel it would make you look rude or petty to complain, still complain. Let yourself seem rude and petty. If told you are rude and petty, own it don't apologise (except in a sorry not sorry way like I am sorry you feel that way).

Disrupt their flow If they turn up unannouced or phone or text or email or anything, find a way to break the flow. You heard the doorbell and have to check. You left the hob on, have to check. Someone is waiting for you, got to go. Cut them off and walk off, put phone on hold, ignore the text for 48 hours, come back after leaving them hanging for a bit. See the rule about being rude and petty above.

PilarEstravados · 01/12/2018 18:36

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zzzzz · 01/12/2018 18:43

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Graphista · 01/12/2018 19:52

Pilar why? There are countries where regular police officers open carry not all mners are in U.K.

MyOtherProfile · 01/12/2018 19:54

And OP has already said she isn't in the UK

mathanxiety · 01/12/2018 19:58

Gift that is secret - this is a wedge between Ben and Sam /Lucy. He now has a secret to be kept from them. If they come to play he can't say 'your dad gave this to me'.
But he should.
And you should send that email or text to Jane thanking her and tell her John told you to keep it a secret from Sam and Lucy.
I imagine he does this at home with the children all the time.
This is grooming

Arrival with weapon - to show you that he is above the law.
Followed by ignoring you and going round the back to fix the fence, which was to tell you that you can't stop him.

Telling one of his children that more biscuits would make them fat - this was a message to Jane. This is how he subtly keeps her afraid of displeasing him.

Bullying the crying child - throwing his weight around to demonstrate who is the boss. He will pull rank whenever anyone puts up a fight.

Did you lock up thoroughly before you left?
Please check very thoroughly for signs of John in your house.
Take any laptop or PC to be vetted for keyloggers, etc.

Also, look at your fence and make sure there is nothing untoward there like a camera.

A question - how did he know your fence needed mending?

AvoidingDM · 01/12/2018 21:18

Op how old is your son compared to Jane's DS1 when they met?

I hope I'm adding 2+2=5
I'm think he is potentially looking for his next 'boy' if the others are getting beyond / not quite at his prefered age!!

This man is really giving me the creeps. If you ever get the eldest boy on his own I'd had half tempted to ask if he has ever been inappropriate to him.

CanSurvive · 01/12/2018 21:26

OP, everything you have been concerned about, your instincts have been right. He is dangerous and you need to keep you and your son safe to start with. Keep a record and you can help your friend later. But tell your friends and family in real life what exactly is going in before he tells everyone he is in a relationship with you or makes up some other lies to discredit you. He is dangerous

AvoidingDM · 01/12/2018 21:34

Idea might be good or awful please consider other peoples thoughts before you act.

You know he reads her messages.
Neither he or Jane know you know.

You could message Jane and say "John popped round to fix my fence I did tell there was no need as I have somebody else organised to do it. He also gave Ben a gift and said to keep it secret not sure why?"

That way your telling Jane and he knows your not going to keep secrets.

mathanxiety · 01/12/2018 22:07

YYY to that. ^^

HeebieJeebies456 · 01/12/2018 23:05

I suspected a grooming issue paedo traits before but put it down to my over imaginative thinking......now i'm sure my initial instincts were correct.

Don't text your friend if he reading all her messages - call her and tell her. Ask her if she was aware her husband has been round with a secret present. Put her on the spot and her reaction will tell you more about the truth than her scripted response if you do it via text.

Keep your distance from both of them, check your fence/back of house for any spy cams etc.
He's pushing your boundaries to 'put you back in your place' for standing up to him.
Your friend may well be a victim to a certain degree in this but she is choosing to stay with him and adopt his thinking.
Be upfront, honest and blunt with her re her situation with john and then distance yourself..........you can't afford to have either of them play these games with you and your son.

HollowTalk · 01/12/2018 23:37

Someone suggested telling Jane to use WhatsApp, but you can use it on a laptop as well as on a phone. Once it's set up on the laptop, you wouldn't know, if you were then using it on your phone.

beeefcake · 01/12/2018 23:53

Wow OP this is escalating. I'm glad you have gone to your parents, have you told them a lot the situation?

ReanimatedSGB · 02/12/2018 01:22

Telling Jane about the gift is a good idea, particularly if you add 'we have been doing some work on not having 'secrets'.

Also, don't get too invested in the idea that it's a 'wonderful thoughtful gift'. It's a box of crayons, which is a nice gift for a kid but also a fairly bog-standard one. I think you do have to tell everyone that John came round to your house and would not leave when you asked him to, and that he gives you the creeps, and that your son is scared of him: yes, this may mean some negative consequences for Jane but, at the same time, you are not being unreasonable to want to protect yourself and Ben from this vile piece of shit. He's a very, very dangerous man, who will have got away with his abusive behaviour (and I agree with PP that there is probably a history of grooming and child abuse that has never quite got to the point of a court case) by convincing the victims that he is a Wonderful Man and therefore no one will believe them.
And if he shows up again, record him on your phone; record yourself saying that you want him to leave.

WellThisIsShit · 02/12/2018 01:47

Yup it’s grooming. It doesn’t actually matter about why he’s doing it, as in, you don’t have to play ‘guess the baddness’ before you defend yourself and your DS from harm.

Time to get your defenders up. No more putting your friend first. You put your son first, and that means no drama for his mummy and no disturbances in his life of any kind. No mixed messages and absolutely no grooming.

I’m a single mother who has to rely on others a lot to help out with DS for health reasons. This means I have to be totally on it where our boundaries are concerned and where DS understanding of boundaries and safety rules are concerned. Abusers look out for homes where the fences aren’t put up well. Sorry to use a fence analogy!!! But they do take advantage of weaknesses already there. A child isn’t protected if there’s a dirty great hole in the fences around them... an abuser can walk straight on through and it’s easy pickings for him. Sickening but true.

So even if this mans grooming is ‘only’ for the purposes of restoring his misogynistic sense of power and control after you so meanly took it away from him by scuppering his hostile takeover bid of your sons party.., that’s NOT ‘ah well, no harm done’.

Just the act of grooming alone does alot of harm because it knocks down your child’s / your families boundaries and safe defenses. It leaves your child open and defenseless against the next predator who comes along.

That is why it is dangerous.

You need to take action to correct the damage in your sons understanding of what’s right / wrong, even if you don’t do much else. A man asked him to keep a secret and you sanctioned that behaviour. So mummy says keeping secrets is okay now.,.. remember how mummy wanted you to keep a secret for me before? Well I’ve got another secret for you to keep... you see how dangerous this is right?!

Suddenly it’s not just about a birthday present anymore is it?

Please don’t sleep walk your child into danger. Abusers groom the family as well as the child. And look, you were already silenced into letting him take control of this situation with your child and you let him engage your son in inappropriate boundary risking behaviour (sorry!). So, although you feel horrible about it, in his head, he won today. And he did win, because your child now has diluted messages about safeguarding, unless you step in quickly.

My ds has known since he was tiny that we never, ever keep secrets, and that if an adult EVER asks him to keep a secret that means that he must come and tell me immediately because that is WRONG. No secrets, ever. No exceptions. We used to make it lighthearted but I’d get him to give me the answer ... so what happens if someone says ‘hey DS, let’s keep a secret...’, and he’d laugh at the idea of it being a kind of ‘secret code’ as it were, because he got to do the exact opposite, and run to mummy and tell me straight away. As he got a bit older, I’m sure I’ve been very annoying in (politely!) changing friends language to ‘surprises’ when they’ve said ‘secrets’ in front of me meaning to prepare a birthday surprise etc, but DS needed a simple rule to follow, not ‘some secrets are good, and some are bad!’.

It proved very needed as someone did do something awful to DS. And an hour later DS came and told me. Much later I asked him why he’d come and shared it so quickly and bravely with mummy, and he looked at me slightly like I was an idiot and said ‘because you always told me to mummy, so I knew what to do’ (like durr)... it was **cking hideous but all the way through that next few months of awfulness, I was told that DSs prompt sharing saved him from so much worse, because it was still in the grooming type of territory / crossing over, but the first properly ‘not ok’ thing to happen. I thank God that DS took me at my word and he got those rules so well into his head. It could so easily have been so much worse.

The thing is, you don’t think it is that important to do right now, always later, life gets in the way, or you assume they’ll know what to do, ... right up until it suddenly matters one hell of a lot. But they’re young and grown ups are confusing, and they need us to show them all the time what the rules are to be safe and sound as we can make them, in small and simple and consistent ways.

So Id say, please please do whatever you need to to shut off a relationship between you and this man, and vitally, your man and your son.

I’d be tempted to text your friend and explain what has happened and breaking this shared secret he’s trying to build between you. However, I understand if you want to avoid escalating the situation.

‘I was taken aback by your husband asking my son to keep the present a secret, I’m really confused about why he’d do that and about whether I’m even supposed to tell you. To be honest, as a police officer especially, I’d have thought he’d know better than to start asking any child to keep secrets for him. The whole visit felt rather odd so I’m not comfortable with him coming round on his own anymore. Sure you’ll understand, etc.’

mathanxiety · 02/12/2018 02:03

Great post.

FlyMaybe · 02/12/2018 02:59

Fantastic post from Wellthisisshit

OP you must tackle this grooming behaviour head-on. You must tell his wife, and report him to his superiors if he continues.

BTW my DH has never checked my phone.

I'm worried for you and your son, and for your friend and her children. Her DH sounds dangerous. Please take care.

TheBaltictriangle · 02/12/2018 06:24

Oh OP, just read this thread & v worried. He'll read her texts. Can you get him over to fix something big & go & talk to friend while he's at your house? You need to say to her that you're concerned about his behaviour & motivations & are there for her if she wants to talk.

Don't have him at your house unsupervised in case he installs discreet monitoring devices. This guy is really dangerous, don't underestimate the damage he can do to you.

ReanimatedSGB · 02/12/2018 09:19

Another reason for telling everyone about this is it will make life uncomfortable for John and may well lead to others talking about his unacceptable behaviour towards them/their DC. Action might get taken against him, but also there comes a point when enough people are saying 'This person behaved inappropriately around my DC/me, as well' for his standing in the community to go from 'Wonderful kind man, so good with children' to 'Creepy fucker who might actually be a nonce'. Not only will he hate this, but it will keep others safe if they know.

HestiasHauntedHandbag · 02/12/2018 09:38

I agree this whole situation is weird and really worrying. Why was he bringing another gift? Surely his children brought a gift to the party already?
It’s not acceptable to ask any child to keep a secret like that. Why would his children be jealous? That’s a rubbish excuse. We give lots of presents to friends and family and it’s never a problem, sometimes my children say ‘oh I’d really like that for my birthday!’ but that’s the extent of it.
As a ‘professional’ in a position of trust, he should know full well asking children to keep a secret is not on - it’s in any safeguarding training.....
You sounded pretty scared when he arrived. Trust your instincts.

Oh and by the way my DH doesn’t check my phone!! That’s just not on.