If you're a long term SAHM, do you feel judged?

[pretzelflipzaretheanswer]

Hi,

Just that really.

I think it's accepted when your dc are pre school age that you take some time out, but once they're at primary... secondary and have decided to continue to SAH, do you feel judged and/or embarrassed? Because I do.

My dd is 11 and bar a bit of child minding, I've been a SAHM the whole time. My dd has additional needs and I have recurring depression and anxiety, both factors to me not working. I am also fully aware that I am able to do this, as my DP earns a very good salary and so I appreciate I'm lucky in that respect.

Does anyone else dread though, that inevitable question at, for example, your dp's Christmas party or generally when meeting new people - "so.. what do you do?". I hate it. Absolutely hate it! You either get "ohhhh" awkward expression and pause "hardest job in the world though, right?" Or a nod and no comment at all. Don't get me wrong, I don't really blame them. I mean, what do you say to that, really? But I have had the "but what do you do with your day?!" "Aren't you bored?" questions. Well, yes. Sometimes I am, but if someone told me they were an accountant, something which would bore me to tears, would I be so rude, as to ask "but aren't you bored?" I'm not having a go at accountants btw I did actually used to work in accounts, I'm just using this for comparison.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I just thought I'd ask how others in the same position felt. I've had quite a few awkward moments like this recently and it makes me feel a bit rubbish tbh.

Thanks for reading.

It does seem strange how many people are still asking, "but what do you do?". As I said in my OP, this is the most infuriating and downright rude question and after reading the way people feel they have to list every single detail of their day and there better not be ANY free minute or you're a lazy slob!

Aren't you bored?" ..... Well, yes. Sometimes I am

Have you tried a little part time job - this may help your anxiety and depression? I think not actually having anything to do will affect your mood.

I know a sahd with 4 kids. His wife works really bloody hard. Never judged once or wondered what he does with his days. I'm assuming raising 4 kids is a minefield in itself. My own mum was a sahm for years, never judged her either.

TheCupboard, I agree that working can help with depression and maybe I will find work, but my point is that if someone did, what I thought was, a boring job, I wouldn't ask them if they were bored, because it's rude. I think anyone would agree with that, so why is it any different?

My kids are 15 and 9 and I've been a stay at home mum since my eldest was 1. I have always really liked being at home with them and we are fortunate that we can afford for just my partner to work. When the kids were little it meant I didn't miss anything and now they are older we don't have to rely on childcare although we do have a childminder sometimes. Sports days, workshops, illness are never an issue so there's no stress around those things. I have never felt judged though, although if someone made negative comments I would just think they were a horrible person or jealous because what normal person would make negative comments about someone else's choices which aren't causing anyone else any harm ?

I don't really get bored. When they are at school I tidy, clean, iron, shop, see friends, watch tv, read, etc. The evenings are then freed up for homework and relaxing. I've had a run of bad health over the last few years so being at home has made that easier to deal with.

It comes down to being happy with your decisions and your life choices. I'm confident our choices are the right ones for my family. I know my kids would have struggled with going to nursery and childminders for long days etc.

Do you think that sometimes it can simply be about “owning” it? I mean, being so secure and confident in your choices and in who you are that it radiates from you when you’re talking to people.
I think sometimes if we feel insecure or apologetic about our decisions, it can affect the way we talk about it and the way other people respond to what we tell them.
I was a SAHM for six years and I felt very concerned at times that people were judging me. And I don’t think anyone should. It’s an amazing thing to do. I think developing positive ways of talking about it can be helpful. Most people aren’t judging, it’s the minority who are. Just because people don’t know what to say doesn’t mean they think badly of you. Sometimes even when you announce a job that you do, it can greeted with a bit of silence as people don’t know what to say about that either!

Also I’d recommend the book “Liberating Motherhood”
by Vanessa Olorenshaw.

Only one woman has made me feel like shit, it was the first time I met her at a friend's, around the kitchen table with quite a few women I had never met, she dominated the conversation, she spoke extensively about working and juggling childcare, what she'd been through, her career high etc - I felt totally excluded, a bit got at and a bit shit about not haven't achieved my potential. And then I met this woman again at a party and I heard all about her current work challenges, in mind numbing detail and the next time was the same, even when she was with her kids it was the same, work, work work. Made me realise that the first conversation I had might have been about her judging me - but I no longer cared what she thought I was judging her.

I am worried about getting bored and lonely when the kids go to university as dh works long hours, so recently I've been working, helping him run his new business - studying for professional qualifications. I enjoy learning new things but I'm not ambitious and I'm ok with that.

I will confess to feeling guilty in the past about working, not so much leaving DC but the fact I need the space. Also not all jobs are equal, I’m lucky that when I looked for pt work after DC1 (previous career not compatible) we could afford childcare as technically I earnt nothing & now i’m fortunate to have a job that allows me to wfh & do flexi hours plus I have DCs grandmas to help with sickness etc.

If you feel judged, it's probably because you feel the weight of people's envy. I'm sure there are indeed plenty of accountants who are bored to tears by their jobs and would love to have the opportunity to stay at home like you, but can't you see. They're just envious, and you are actually very lucky to be able to do it these days.

Not an accountant, or unduly given to judging other women's choices, but would like to clear this up -- I do not envy SAHMs.I have never envied SAHMs. I don't think I've ever met anyone who envied SAHMs. I'm politely baffled by the frequency with with SAHMs on Mn say 'I've been fortunate/blessed/lucky enough to be a SAHM for x years".

I absolutely respect your right to be a SAHM, and I feel strongly about the lack of social and monetary value according to the caring responsibilities, parental or otherwise, traditionally carried out by women., but there is no way I would want to be in your shoes. When I see someone on Mn saying 'I'm lucky enough to be a SAHM', I'm wondering what it is you think other people envy? All these bored accountants who are supposedly envying you -- what exactly is it you think they are envying?

This is not intended in a hostile way. I do something that comes up regularly on the 'what would your ideal job be?' threads on Mn, and it's overwhelmingly obvious that the people who fantasise about doing this have no idea what it actually entails. Maybe this is similar?

' I don't think I've ever met anyone who envied SAHMs. I'm politely baffled by the frequency with with SAHMs on Mn say 'I've been fortunate/blessed/lucky enough to be a SAHM for x years". '

We're constantly told (eg on another thread I am on not an hour ago) we are lucky to be able to afford it.
Given how many people work all hours and don't get to spend as much time with their kids as they would like, I don't think it's unreasonable to acknowledge that.

When a friend of mine told me she envied it once, she said she envied my being brave enough to make the decision! She didn't know the real situation (I felt forced into a corner, certainly not brave) but that is what she said, at any rate.

*but there is no way I would want to be in your shoes"

And that's fine and I wouldn't want to be in someone's shoes who had to work in a job they hated.

I dont think its a simpole as "i dont work" rather than Sahm. V few jobs are school hours/term time only so being a sahm when they are at school is still an active choice to be there for school runs and activities and school plays and helping on trips and perhaps etc. Also having time to do stuff in the day means more family time at weekends and evenings so is a very aactive family orientated choice as opposed to just not working.

Id have had a v different career life if I hadnt had kids but the truth for us is that having kids has shaped how we work/where we live and the drop income and neighbourhood/holidays has been part of that intentional choice. I work a very little but it isnt what I would if it I wasnt a sahm/hadnt been for those years.

I do feel incredibly privileged to be able to be a sahm for the years before they started school. I wouldnt have given it up for anything. Even though it affects our income etc. Ideally Id have been in a different career prekids to afford to return a few days at this point!

No, and I can't afford to work unless it's 10 hours or less a week. We'd lose WTC, so we'd be no better off. Where can I find a job that's 10 hours a week?

I think this is 50/50. 50 you being judged and 50 you feeling a bit down about your circumstances.

A friend of mine has an SN child and it is a whole different ball game because she has meetings at the school, appointments and is a single mum. She would find it very difficult to juggle at job. In fact, she tried pre-diagnosis and it nearly broke her. She says herself she didn't intend to take such long maternity leave, indicating that she would have preferred her circumstances to have been different.

So, I would say this comment gets to you because you feel unfulfilled in some way. I get that you may feel this way because I do, too. I do work but I'm overqualified for my job but it's the least stressful option with a rather unruly teenager and a primary aged child.

I did do a bit of volunteering a while back, which was related to my degree and I really enjoyed it. It gave me a massive boost and it wasn't that hard to slot in because I was doing it from home

WitchBottle I haven't really thought about it but I suppose I do feel 'lucky' that I am a sahm. I had a job for 15 years (in more than one company but same type of job). I did not enjoy it. It actually at times made me loose a lot of confidence in myself. It make me very unhappy and (I now know) affected my mental health. Why didn't I leave? I felt trapped. By the bills I had to pay etc. I was mentally exhausted so I rarely wanted to do anything out of work. I looked into college courses but my work hours would of made it hard. Leaving that world behind totally made me feel free. While my main priority has been taking care of my daughter being a sahm has given me chance to finally concentrate on me and what I enjoy and believe about life. I could not have done this without my husband who has a job. It is a struggle on just his wage (we rent privatly, have no car, holidays are spent at relatives) but it does make me feel lucky. Very lucky indeed.
But as for everyone else... sahm or working mum - to be honest I don't really care. It's your life. Not mine.

Sometimes I feel judged. I saw someone I hadn't seen for a while the other day and she said "are you working? Or are you a lady of leisure?" Peed me off a bit.
I don't work because my youngest child is severely autistic and I can't afford to pay child care in the school holidays. She needs 1-1 care and I've been told I'd have to pay an extra £6-£7 per hour for the extra member of staff. On top of the usual fees. I wouldn't be earning that. I had children young so haven't got any qualifications so wouldn't be earning more than minimum wage.
We're very fortunate that I don't need to work and I'm here to do school runs, cook, clean and take care of my family. I'd love to earn my own money though.

I don't expect other people to view my choice to be a SAHM as lucky, nor do I think they should be envious of me, because we all should make choices about our lives that suit us and nobody else. Anyone who likes their life and has had the freedom to choose that life, is lucky. I personally feel fortunate to have the life that I have, because it's the life I want and have chosen.

I've been both. Stayed home when the kids were under five, studied and now work full-time.

I don't care what anyone does, but believe every capable adult should be able to provide for themselves if the shit should hit the fan. Relying on someone else for your very existence is not smart. Your DH/DW could meet someone else, be made redundant, any thing really... everyone, male or female, should be wise enough to realise this and either complete training, maintain their skills or do something to ensure they are employable and can therefore provide for themselves if they have to.

This one comes up time and time again. Surely, as an SAHM/part time low paid worker, your DH would dependent on you for childcare? If you died, he'd have to either change his working hours or fork out loads on expensive childcare, whilst still being available for school stuff, sick days etc.

Parenting and work decisions are a mutual agreement and the two partners are interdependent. Each party would be stuffed if the other went but they would end up managing if they had to

I’ve had combinations of all over my years of motherhood and especially enjoyed people’s assumptions that I was a ‘mumbrained deadbeat’ when I was a SAHM.

I’m a specialist in an intellectual and extremely competitive field so, as my career progressed, I became more and more able to call the shots in terms of my working hours.

I was a FTWOHM with my eldest but am almost always at home with my youngest. I do school runs and go to plays, assemblies and sports days.

I genuinely don’t find either more or less taxing.
I outsourced a lot of the things I do now when I was away from home FT. I was also in charge of a well oiled team and had a hugely efficient PA.
I had a dog walker, gardener and nanny. I’ve kept the cleaner

There is definitely a negative association to not working as a mother of school age DC. But the most ferocious judging I had was for working FT with young DC.

You absolutely can’t win so you must learn not to care what random people think.
Be proud of the time and attention you’re lucky enough to give your DC.
It’s ridiculous. Important unpaid work in society is not only often given to women but run down and denigrated to boot.
We should all be fighting to raise the status of motherhood, not run it down.

We should all be fighting to raise the status of motherhood, not run it down.

I completely agree. People still think the assumption that we need to work as soon as we've given birth or packed our Reception child off to school, we need to start a 37.5 hour week in a well paid job as an insurance policy in case our husband runs off with his secretary.

People think this is progressive. Is it really? I might run off into the sunset with the postie or leave him with the kids because I find family life a nightmare and don't feel cut out for the role and he'd be just as stuffed as I would be.

The worst ones for judging my choice to SAH are DH’s family. His mother, sister and both SILs went back to work after maternity leave so they constantly judge me because I haven’t. However the four of them are a GP, another GP, a surgeon and a barrister. They earn more than enough to pay tax and childcare and still have at least £2k per month left in their pocket. Whereas I was a teacher of disabled adults at a FE college which means my salary was so low that I can’t go back to work because the cost of childcare would exceed my salary. They don’t appreciate that I’d love to return to work like they did but I can’t afford it. They make frequent digs about me living off DH, not being career oriented and “having lots of time” to do stuff. It’s awful.

I think you are minimising the terrible situation a lot of women (and it's mostly women) find themselves in 9ofpentangles.

Yes, a runaway stay-at-home-parent would be inconvenient for a working partner, but the fact is, when they are at school, the cost would largely be childcare related, and if the child is late primary or secondary, this wouldn't even factor. Inconvenient and expensive but not life-threatening.

However a working partner abandoning the stay-at-home-parent who is unemployable is a completely different scenario. There are risks of homelessness here and I have seen firsthand the devastation of women who suddenly realise they cannot provide for themselves or their children.

I am not running down motherhood by asking capable women and men to be able to provide for themselves if they need to. I'm simply asking for wisdom.

My only judgement is jealousy! Would !ove not to have to work - I'm lucky in that I only work 3.5 days but boy do I love my days off! I wish all my days could be like those rather than the soul destroying 12 hour work days - my biggest hatred of work days is having to drop my girls off at 7.15am and not pick them up until 6.30pm - it's too long a day for 8 and 6 year olds. I actually love my job once I'm there but the logistics of it all kill me! There is nothing worse for a mood than getting home at 7.15pm with breakfast dishes everywhere, beds unmade, bathroom in chaos - it is soul destroying.