Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Just to put my mind at rest about self ID.

205 replies

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 03/10/2018 10:36

What will be put in place to stop a peodophile /fetishist sitting in a female swimming changing room watching people undress?
I'd like facts rather than "I would think" and "i assume"

OP posts:
Original poster
CaptainKirkssparetupee · 04/10/2018 21:00

Yeah, I was asking why discussions keep getting shut down, isn't that damaging?
I can totally understand how draining and tiring it is repeating facts but facts do need to get out there or else only one side of the view si spread.

OP posts:
Molokonono · 04/10/2018 21:02

Happy with men in women's loos but not happy with people asking the wrong type of question in a chat forum.

Totally reasonable.

itsbritneybiatches · 04/10/2018 21:06

@Molokonono

Hi
Apologies if not aimed at me but have I asked something unreasonable?

RatRolyPoly · 04/10/2018 21:10

Happy with men in women's loos but not happy with people asking the wrong type of question in a chat forum.

Don't worry britney, I think it's one for me Wink

Actually Molo that post was a jibe at the FWR response of, "please stop bothering us very important feminists in our very important safe space of FWR with your tedious man loving", any time someone posts even vaguely trans-inclusive.

I'm surprised you didn't recognise it.

RatRolyPoly · 04/10/2018 21:11

Okay, DEFO leaving now.

StoorieHoose · 04/10/2018 21:26

I think the Twitter pile on that topshop got over changing rooms might give her pause for thought about questioning someone

itsbritneybiatches · 04/10/2018 21:28

I'm new to this as am sure people can tell and are probably saying "ffs" under their breath.

If your in a changing room with a man, who is dressed as a women who is trying to fit in an cause no one any bother, just wants
To fit in and is doing their best to and everyone is comfortable with. Then that's totally different to "ie Kevin"
Who is wearing man attire and is clearly
Not trying to make anyone comfortable but says he identifies as "Jayne" because it's his right, does the first man get asked to leave aswell even if we are all ok with him and his behaviour just because of someone like "Kevin".

This sounds so goady I know, I'm just trying to get my head round it all. When does what apply when?

StoorieHoose · 04/10/2018 21:29

Plus I’m not talking about a trans woman don’t doing anything other than trying on clothes - this thread is asking about stopping pervs from using self id to access woman’s spaces

itsbritneybiatches · 04/10/2018 21:29

Massive cubicles for everyone everywhere. Tia the only way.

ShotsFired · 04/10/2018 21:30

Fast forward to post self-id. Store assistant sees hairy "woman" in changing room. Suspects they xy but they're just minding their own business, whatever. What makes you think that she would be scared to ask that person if they were in the right room? Perhaps it will be seen as rude if she's wrong, but if she genuinely thinks there's a chance they're in the wrong room, why wouldn't she ask? You say because she's scared of being labelled transphobic?...Please tell me why you think all trans people are litigious narcissists who would clearly jump at the chance to nail her to a cross?

Are you shitting me Rat? Really?

How many examples do you want of this stuff happening in real life before we accept there will be people who will abuse the rules to further their own cause/kink/whatever godforsaken reason? "Genuine" trans or not, it doesn't really matter does it, if you are the 19yo Topshop saturday girl trying to deal with it.

titchy · 04/10/2018 21:47

What makes you think that she would be scared to ask that person if they were in the right room?

Christ alive rat do you have any idea what it's like to be a teenage girl working Saturdays in New Look. Ffs.

And I repeat for the hard of hearing - it's not the genuine transexuals we're worried about being assaulted by, it's the pervs. Who we all know will claim they're trans and therefore have every right to be there while we have the only right we currently have to challenge them removed.

Not even gonna mention privacy and dignity...

titchy · 04/10/2018 21:49

why wouldn't she ask? You say because she's scared of being labelled transphobic?...P

And because she's young. And doesn't want to lose her job. Or be ostracised by her mates. And because female socialisation means it's really really really fucking difficult to challenge males. not that you'd know anything about that rat

itsbritneybiatches · 04/10/2018 22:02

In the generation that does what we do I am

Sad that new laws can't take common sense into account.

I'm 100% behind women's rights. I am a women.

I'm sad that as a whole society we can't make this work. We are supposed to be so clever.

Common sense, change your genitals either way but understand what you were born with still applies. Just does loves.

Original poster
CaptainKirkssparetupee · 05/10/2018 09:53

It's the fact that any discussion to try and clarify things is shut down which worries me.

OP posts:
FekkoTheLawyer · 05/10/2018 10:14

Rats just here for the jam

TimeIhadaNameChange · 05/10/2018 10:17

Is there any reason why we can't divide such spaces not by gender or sex but purely by genitalia (which should account to the same thing but, apparently, doesn't these days)?

So, instead of having one space for 'women' and one for 'men' we have one for 'whose who have a penis' (whether they want it or not) and one for 'those who have a vagina' (likewise).

Other than being rather crude, is there any argument against that?

Original poster
CaptainKirkssparetupee · 05/10/2018 10:52

Other than being rather crude, is there any argument against that?
Yes, it lets women keep their rights. This is literally what we currently have and it isn't good enough.

OP posts:
lilllil · 05/10/2018 11:03

We're also fairly squeamish about what the right word is anyway (toilets, bathrooms, facilities, the ladies, the gents). No one would say "where's the penis room".

(Except with a giant wink Grin)

PositivelyPERF · 05/10/2018 11:21

Since so many woke people, including those in the medical profession, are using the word gender, instead of sex, I doubt that would work, TimeIhadaNameChange. 😁

BlueBrush · 05/10/2018 12:53

Thanks to @Prawnofthepatriarchy for the links to stats on rates of sexual assaults committed in unisex changing rooms - that's really useful.

I've seen a couple of mentions that rates of (violent?) crime are the same in trans women as men. Does anyone have any reports they can point me towards?

wrenika · 05/10/2018 21:49

Sorry, OP, I wasn't around to spring to life and answer your rants. I do have a life beyond the computer screen. Fortunately for you, I don't have either the time or patience to argue the ins and outs of female harassment with someone who then harasses a female in the hope of goading a response out of them. Talk about irony...I'm flattered that you needed my input enough to tag me over 20 times, but flattery sometimes gets you nowhere.

Original poster
CaptainKirkssparetupee · 05/10/2018 22:06

I didn't tag I bolded, tagging requires an @.
I wasn't goading for a response either, that is how quickly my mind was going at that point with questions, I was attempting to be friendly, I even called you my best friend because you responded to me.

Perhaps a little acceptance an understanding for someone having a difficult time?

OP posts:
Original poster
CaptainKirkssparetupee · 05/10/2018 22:12

My mind works differently to most, I was trying to accumulate information on another point of view, it was a situation which required questions, it wasn't my fault you weren't there to answer.

I know I can come across as annoying, even more so when I'm stuck on a subject and I'm sorry if you felt harassed, I have since tried to be restrained on this thread, a much easier task when my head is clear.

OP posts:
Original poster
CaptainKirkssparetupee · 05/10/2018 22:31

For some context, Imagine reading various reports of this GRA reform all day and having intrusive thoughts about the dangers, asking for you mind to be put to rest in a part of the site which is more balanced, then reading through the thread only to come up on your post.
Wouldn't you have questions??

OP posts:
Prawnofthepatriarchy · 05/10/2018 23:09

BlueBrush, I think you mean the Swedish longitudinal study. It studied the transgender population of Sweden for, I think, 30 years. It found transwomen commit sex and violent crime at the same rate as other males, which is hardly surprising.

Of the 120+ transwomen in prison roughly half are sex offenders, which is a disturbing statistic, as sex offenders make up less than 20% of the general prison population.

Swipe left for the next trending thread