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Just to put my mind at rest about self ID.

205 replies

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 03/10/2018 10:36

What will be put in place to stop a peodophile /fetishist sitting in a female swimming changing room watching people undress?
I'd like facts rather than "I would think" and "i assume"

OP posts:
titchy · 04/10/2018 20:06

Please don't misinform people that they will no longer be able to go up to someone and say, "I'm sorry, we have some concerns around your behaviour, we'd like to ask you to leave". Because that's simply not true.

Yes of course, gym managers are falling over themselves to boot out dodgy clientele on the say so of female clientele. They're not afraid of litigation at all. Oh no. Yet another thing that doesn't happen.

Violent sex offenders aren't housed with vulnerable female prisoners and their children. Not at all.

DV shelters where self id is legal are quite happy to boot out Mx Muscato aren't they. No rape crisis centre has closed because of a TIM vexatious litigant demanded their his right to access rape victims.

None of this ever happens. Oh no. Never. Move along.

StoorieHoose · 04/10/2018 20:07

What prevents it right now is responsible individuals with a social conscience and some common sense

Ye cos when self id comes in your average minimum wage 19 year old lass covering New Look changing rooms is going to confront a man knowing that she could lose her job and be labelled as transphobic! At the moment she does have management backing to report a man in the female changing room but as soon as self id is law she won’t because management won’t want to be labelled as transphobic and have the incident all over Twitter with the whole brigade boycotting their stores

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 04/10/2018 20:10

I'm happy to hear if you don't really know or it's nothing. Someone upthread said they wouldn't know until after the GRA thing had actually been settled.

Which to me, seems a little bit dodgy, for everyone. we implimented brexit without knowing what was coming didn't we, and that has'nt ended well.

OP posts:
RatRolyPoly · 04/10/2018 20:10

Yes, sorry, please ignore the tone of my last post. Up until earlier this afternoon i was chatting on a lovely thread with a load of other ladies who have hidden the FWR boards previously to avoid this. Many of us have tried to make our choices heard and given up, and now just want to enjoy mumsnet for other topics. That's the "we" I'm referring to. It's also why I maybe spoke bit harshly.

Register changes their name or their gender Or sex is their history still linked to them? If they change their name is it still linked?

Yes, it is still linked. When you get issued a new birth certificate with a GRC it is merely a duplicate; the original birth register is not amended. That duplicate allows you to use it for things like starting a new job, getting a bank account etc. without revealing the medical history of your reassignment.

Again, it DOES NOT alter the original record. It is that original record that the police can access, along with a history of any aliases, should they have cause. Hth.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 04/10/2018 20:12

Yes, sorry, please ignore the tone of my last post

It's alright I'm aware i can come across as very annoying when i obess.

OP posts:
RatRolyPoly · 04/10/2018 20:12

Ye cos when self id comes in your average minimum wage 19 year old lass covering New Look changing rooms is going to confront a man knowing that she could lose her job and be labelled as transphobic!

Now why on earth would anyone think anything as patently nonsensical, not to mention dangerous, as that??

Oh, wait...

itsbritneybiatches · 04/10/2018 20:13

@RatRolyPoly thank you for the clarification

Purplehammer · 04/10/2018 20:13

This may seem a silly question, but I am not too well informed re self I’d.
Can a man self I’d as a woman and use a female changing room.
Then can the same person self I’d as a man the next time they visit the same venue and use the male changing room.
Can a man self I’d on alternate days.

StoorieHoose · 04/10/2018 20:14

Sorry rocky being a bit dim today - can you explain further?

StoorieHoose · 04/10/2018 20:14

Sorry Roly not rocky

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 04/10/2018 20:15

ladies who have hidden the FWR boards previously to avoid this

That's why this is here, i'm sure you understand chat will get far more balanced replies because it's a board everyone has unblocked.

OP posts:
RatRolyPoly · 04/10/2018 20:15

Aaaanyway, I've been on the road 8 hours today and I made my first post on this from my car on the driveway. I need to get dinner! Hopefully I've given you something to think about that might in time settle your nerves a little. If this is still rolling another time I might pop back. No offence to you personally, but given that I've recently hidden the topic I hope I don't! Night.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 04/10/2018 20:15

You've just admitted FWR will be one sided.

OP posts:
StoorieHoose · 04/10/2018 20:16

My post might not have been clear. Your 19 year old lass on the changing rooms at the moment knows that if she reports to management a man in the female changing rooms she knows that they will do something about it. When self id comes in she might be reluctant to report knowing that management would not/might not have her back

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 04/10/2018 20:16

bye, it was actually very helpful.

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itsbritneybiatches · 04/10/2018 20:20

Ok

Help me understand people's views.

I go to a lot of gay bars with my
Sister.

In the ladies toilets there are women and men dressed as women (not sure anymore what the correct term is as they may be trans, they may be men dressed as women as they like to). Everyone is ok with it. No issues.

In the men's toilets there are the same as above but no women just men. Everyone is fine with it again no issues.

Should the men dressed as women be in the men's if a women is uncomfortable or should the majority win?

In work. This is, I think currently, men no matter how they are dressed in the mens. Women the same. Potential issues? Unless we all get cubicles?

In general I.e in McDonald's same as above or what?

itsbritneybiatches · 04/10/2018 20:21

I'm going to get flamed here can just see it 🤦🏽‍♀️

titchy · 04/10/2018 20:24

Eh? What's nonsensical about a teenager with a Saturday job in Top shop or wherever being told about a dodgy behaving customer?

Large numbers of women, despite being concerned about self-id, do not feel able to speak publicly for fear of their jobs, of being doxxed, of being ostracised. Yet somehow, Saturday assistants will have the confidence and assurance to challenge someone, knowing full well they will be accused of being phobic.

Male socialisation means men are not afraid to challenge, defend, assert. Female socialisation means we are.

StoorieHoose · 04/10/2018 20:26

That’s what I meant! Thank you @Titchy

titchy · 04/10/2018 20:29

I'm going to get flamed here can just see it

No reason why you should.

I imagine the clientele of the bars you go to know exactly who will be using which loos, and they attend with that full disclosure. I'd also hazard a guess that the men in the ladies are gay, and no threat to women. But as a principle, I think yes, if one women is uncomfortable the chaps should leave.

ShotsFired · 04/10/2018 20:36

Today, if I walk into my gm changing and there is a man there, I can immediately request he leave, or get gym management assistance to do so. Just for being there. I don't need a reason apart from the fact he is a man in the women's changing room. I am also fairly confident about speaking up/supporting any other women who did so.

In this brave new world being proposed, I can walk in there and he can be there and there is pretty much sod-all I could do about it. If I query him, I am the one needing "re-educating" or the one who should find alternative arrangements or the one who is transphobic against this "woman". And I am the one now excluded from the place that was meant for me to be segregated from male gaze for a perfectly legitimate reason, because a male decided he should be there instead.

I can't honestly see how weasel words can make this ok?

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 04/10/2018 20:42

RatRolyPoly You seem very reasonable, to think think the shut down of any official discussion and the behaviour of the twitter mobs are damaging this?

Also why is there refusal to discuss this matter?

Also if you makes you feel better i'm not in as bad of a state as i was on Tuesday when i posted this, i couldn't get posts out fast enough then as the thoughts were so quick, things have leveled out now.

OP posts:
RatRolyPoly · 04/10/2018 20:54

Okay okay okay, I had to come back to point out just one thing; I've been wanting to make this point for yonks and you've reminded me.

Yet somehow, Saturday assistants will have the confidence and assurance to challenge someone, knowing full well they will be accused of being phobic

Ten, twenty, fifty years ago, before transgenderism was widely known about, a young sales assistant sees a "woman" in the changing room with excess facial hair. She assumes either this is a man in the wrong room, or a man up to no good. They're behaving respectfully and there's no reason to be suspicious so she simply asks if they're in the right room. They say they are; perhaps they're unhappy to have been asked, but everyone knows it was an understandable question with good intentions. End of story.

Fast forward to post self-id. Store assistant sees hairy "woman" in changing room. Suspects they xy but they're just minding their own business, whatever. What makes you think that she would be scared to ask that person if they were in the right room? Perhaps it will be seen as rude if she's wrong, but if she genuinely thinks there's a chance they're in the wrong room, why wouldn't she ask? You say because she's scared of being labelled transphobic?

Please tell me why you think all trans people are litigious narcissists who would clearly jump at the chance to nail her to a cross? Why? Why would she even be scared of that? In the past she might have been worried about causing offence, but now she's worried about going to jail??

Where would she get this idea that "normal" people would draw the line at being a bit pissed off, but terrible terrible trans people would accuse her of hate crimes?

That's nuts! And it's actual transphobia. Telling people that if you offend a non-trans person that's one thing, but everyone knows if you ask a simple question with good reason to a trans person they'll sue you. That's what they're like you know, those trans.

Threads like many of FWR which perpetuate this hateful myth don't help.

itsbritneybiatches · 04/10/2018 20:55

@Purplehammer

What purplehammer asked. Is that possible?

RatRolyPoly · 04/10/2018 20:57

Sorry Captain, I hadn't read your post before I posted mine; I had a thought I wanted to get out.

I didn't understand your question though; are you saying why can't people talk about this on twitter? I don't know, I don't use Twitter. It's proper full of loons, I can't see the sense of discussing anything on there myself. Does it have to be discussed on twitter? Is that really important?