“My child is top of their class”

[BluthsFrozenBananas]

I see this on threads quite often, I just saw it on another thread. Or my child is on a higher book band than any other classmate, or is top in maths, and I wonder, how the hell do people know that?

My DD is in y6, at no time since she’s been in primary have I known her “ranking” in the class, or that of any other child. Neither did I have any idea what book band others were on in the days of reading books.

I get if your child is super bright and doing extension work far beyond their years you might assume they were “top” of the class, but even then surely it’s not a given as teachers don’t routinely give out information about other children’s accidemic achievements.

Or am I missing out on something and schools publish super secret league tables of children which only the parents of children at the top get to see?

It’s bullshit that it’s ok to discuss exceptional sports performance.

DS was horribly bullied a few years ago because of parental jealousy related to this.

I’m very sorry that happened to your DS Taffeta, your poor boy, some people are awful.

However look at this thread. Posters have come on and said those who’ve said they’ve been told by teachers that their kids are “top of the class” are either:

Lying
Misinterpreting the teacher’s comments
Overinvested/bad parents
Only top because the school is rubbish.

If I posted on a thread about sports that my DS’s Coach has said he was the best player in his team no one would say I was lying, mistaken, the team must be rubbish etc

We even had Stealth implying that posters must be lying about their clever kids because they had spelling and grammar errors. No one would ever say that the fact that I’m no athlete means I’m lying about my DS’s sporting ability.

Excellence in any area of attainment can lead to envy, but for some reason on MN it’s only when you talk about academic achievements you are accused of either lying or being a pushy mother.

MN is anonymous

I get that people brag on here (and yes it is bragging - just because it’s anonymous doesn’t mean it’s not ) as they can’t do it IRL. Although plenty do that as well

Some people are comfortable with it, some aren’t. I find it distasteful most of the time. Everyone has their own opinion.

I’ve come across some atrociously boastful and competitive parents both IRL and on MN. Sometimes I call it out, IRL and on MN.

No longer live in the UK.....at my children’s High School, top acedemic achievers get a certificate at the end of each semester, so about the top 20 kids with the highest grade point average in each year get a certificate in front of the whole school. There are roughly 250 - 270 kids per year.

Also for individual subjects, when each test/assignment is marked, the teachers put the scores onto a website that calculates their rank. you log in online to see your kids marks. The mark is charted on a line where the right hand side is the the top mark and the left hand side is the bottom mark. So you can tell if your child is top. Also at parent/ teacher interviews you are given a ranking of where your child is in the year for the main subjects.

I'm sorry but it applies to anything that your child excels in not just academic.
I've experienced it in dancing, music, sport, as well as academic.
This like others have said in rl and on here.

Parents of children who dance or play music to a high standard are accused of being tiger parents, over invested, living their own life through their dc.
Or, they can't possibly be as good as you say, or look at x they can do it better, You are deluded etc.

"I get that people brag on here (and yes it is bragging - just because it’s anonymous doesn’t mean it’s not ) as they can’t do it IRL..."

There is nothing wrong with 'bragging' sometimes. When little Suzy gets into Oxford/little Jimmy gets another swim trophy/baby Kai walks at 8mths/DH gets a great promotion at work, etc, Janet is happy and proud and she wants to tell people, it's human nature. She shouldn't have to keep it to herself in case anyone who hears it gets jealous.

Surely we should be pleased for them that things are going well, not sneer, belittle and 'call them out' on it, no?

Clem - that’s what you do, that’s fine

It’s not what I do. I think that’s also fine

I know this because DD is way, way ahead of anyone in her class. She's only now starting to feel the pressure in year 6, but that's only because she's an introvert, so exhausted by a day at school, and she's now getting 3 times the amount of homework compared to last year. I also think that SATs boosters will make a very long day for her.

But, Taffeta, why aren't you happy for someone who has an achievement to brag about? What is it in you that makes you call them out when they brag?

Nothing “in me” - just don’t like bragging, find it distasteful

I haven’t called out or zoned in on any one poster. That’d be bullying. I saw a load of braggy posts and called it out.

Okay then.

I think it can be a huge aid for a teacher to tell a parent their child has exceeded all expectations and has come top in something.
This happened to me and I'd never been so proud.
My dd struggles with all core subjects, her teacher told me she came top of class with a piece of English work, this was because she usually came close to if not the bottom.
I don't think I told everybody though, I might have missed a few out

I once experienced half a class of parents, no exageration, complain that a child should be banned from sports day because they were good at running and would win. This was during the infants and followed the poor girl through school, every year complaints.
The child was very talented and soon ran for county and competed nationally, eventually.
I would not be surprised to see her in the Olympic team in a few years.

Nsbgsyebebdnd "It’s fine for a teacher to say your child is one of the more able in the class but I’d guess saying ‘top of the class’ is more unusual. Either way if it was me I certainly would want to retain friends and not go shouting about it!"

This. It's one thing for a teacher to describe a child as extremely able, or doing very well, but we've never had any sort of reference to how everyone else in the class is doing. I'm a bit surprised teachers would do that these days, and I don't think it's the norm.

I think our school reports are poor at conveying how our children are doing though. Meeting/exceeding expectations tells you very little, especially if you have no idea how usual or unusual an "Exceeding" is. I think we could have supported DD better and reassurred her more through Y6, had we had a better sense of how well she was already doing.

When I was at school you knew where you were in the class as it was on your report e.g. 3/32. There was no getting away from it. You were given a position for each subject and that in turn would give you your overall place.

When DS was at school I only knew that he was doing well, ok or needed more effort via parents evenings.

TiaMariaAndCoke
Exactly. It's all relative.
I've seen work in some lessons described as outstanding and best in the class and if a child handed that in in my class then they'd be getting it to redo.
All top of the class says is that they are better than other students in a given group witj a given teacher. It's a meaningless piece of information.

I like the way parents are being slagged off for being proud of their child's academic achievement. I bet it wouldn't happen if a parent was saying their child had won a race, but we aren't allowed to discuss academic achievement without being overinvested or living through our children
Someone wins a race you can conclude that in that race they were quicker than other children.
Someone gets the top mark on a test you can conclude that child did better on that test.
Nothing more.

The child who came 2nd in the race might be a much better athlete overall. The child who came 5th might be the one with the right dedication and is on a training squad at county level. The race result doesn't allow you to decide your child is top at running.

Same in academic achievements. A child may get 100% on a test and another might have got 90% but the child witj 90% might have a much more developed understanding of the course and got unlucky on questions. You can't conclude that child a is Top of the Class or better than child B over a test result.

Telling a child or parent that their child is particularly strong at X or prodcued and exceptional piece of work on Y is useful feedback and celebrates achievement.
Telling a child or parent they are 'top' offers nothing other than to feed a mindset where being top matters more than learning. In my experience, students who are preoccupied with coming top further down the school really struggle at GCSE to get the highest grades because it requires independence and risk taking. Students who have a fixed mindset and have been taught that appearing clever is more important than actually learning often struggle to take the risks in case they look stupid and then that's some sort of slight on them as a person. It's an interesting area of study.

I agree with that - top of the class in a school in a deprived area generally isn’t going to be the same as top of the class in a school in an affluent area for eg.
I did get told at one parents evening that my dd was going into the year above for English lessons as she was working at above the level for her year and actually above what the year above were doing as well! So while they didn’t say ‘top of the class’ I’m pretty sure she was (in English at least) as she was the only child who went to a different year. But she may well have been considered pretty average if she attended the local independent.

Sadly I also think kids know if they are bottom of the class. Even if groups are named after colours or birds or whatever rather than numbered.

I once changed the colours of my groups around and a parent demanded to know why her child was in green group, because everyone knew green group was the bottom group. Naughty me, I had made green group the top group, but clearly this caused consternation. I changed them again during the year, but she didn't come in again.

@maisypops I totally agree that the idea of "top" is a bit flimsy and not helpful - generally a bit meaningless as feedback etc.

The growth/ fixed mindset issue is one I struggle with. As a parent of autistic children in mainstream school they are the definition of "fixed" in some ways. Unable to imagine success when they are struggling, belligerent and detail oriented but they are also capable of incredible focus and imagination when approaching their learning. With dd I am still not sure how she learned to read and ds went from trying to deny the existence of France to getting "outstanding" in his french reports.

The point I am trying to make is for people like ds high functioning autism means he may be the cleverest and most well read in the room but he will struggle to find employment, he will probably struggle with anxiety and potentially depression as an adult. Right now in a controlled safe (ISH) and predictable environment he is flying. I don't give a toss if I am bragging on MN about him. I do think it is unfair that I can't comfortably talk about his achievements outside of immediate family. But I get why.

If you don't know where your child sits they are probably comfortably in the middle

Robojesus that's patronising and just plain wrong.

Teachers don’t keep a list ordering children from brightest to dumbest. That’s just not how it works so the entire concept of ‘top of the class’ is imagainary.

@MixerUpper it's neither 😂