“My child is top of their class”

[BluthsFrozenBananas]

I see this on threads quite often, I just saw it on another thread. Or my child is on a higher book band than any other classmate, or is top in maths, and I wonder, how the hell do people know that?

My DD is in y6, at no time since she’s been in primary have I known her “ranking” in the class, or that of any other child. Neither did I have any idea what book band others were on in the days of reading books.

I get if your child is super bright and doing extension work far beyond their years you might assume they were “top” of the class, but even then surely it’s not a given as teachers don’t routinely give out information about other children’s accidemic achievements.

Or am I missing out on something and schools publish super secret league tables of children which only the parents of children at the top get to see?

DD1 is top of her class for reading, in fact she's in the top 2% in the country for her age and ability for reading.

How do I know?

Because she's been assessed by an educational psychologist, and was diagnosed with dyslexia.

Is it a big deal and do I brag? No.

Thanks to dyslexia and dyspraxia DD1 is going to struggle to show how bright she really is any written test and exam.

All the visibly able and intelligent children in both DCs classes (primary) are without exception Autumn born.

My dc both got the highest score on the (bloody awful) 11+. They knew who the other bright kids were (pulled out for advanced maths etc). Dd was definitely top of her class. Ds was one of two best all rounders. I would never say this to anyone apart from their grandparents because I’m not a tool. It is blissful being able to boast on here though

Now they are at secondary (grammars) I have no idea where they are but from what they tell me, definitely not top! I couldn’t care less unless they did and they don’t.

People who tell you are desperately trying to prove something, probably how clever they are by extension of their children being clever.

Oh and I didn’t answer the OP, too busy enjoying the very rare opportunity to boast. Part of the reason I knew is because my friend taught them for one year and she told me! Also, they were always on the ‘top table’ and they knew what they and other children got on tests, teachers either told us outright or hinted strongly at it etc. It’s not rocket science.

This thread is like a roll call of top of the classers!

I agree with the poster who said if you have a truly exceptional child you know about it. Everyone knows about it. We get remarks every time we go out. We get a crowd sometimes.

I have no idea what the average ability of a child the age of mine is because they are an only. It trips you up. It’s not all roses, it can be hard work!

I don't get top of the class either. Dd1 Y5 is 'above' for writing, reading and maths and is on top table. But for me 'top of the class' means she is outperforming all the other DC which tbh I think is unlikely and I'd never claim that. She definitely isn't academically gifted she's just fairly bright and very hard working. In fact she's a bit like Hermione Granger but I suspect the true Harry Potter will emerge in theirbrilliance later on.

JustCallMeDave
You speak so much sense.
You can work out roughly where a child would fall (students can too to a point but I tend to find they are surprisingly inaccurate at their comparisons). Deciding someone is top of the class is almost meaningless though because top in a reading test based on vocabulary doesn't mean they're always the best reader in the sense of can confidently read a range of genres and comprehend complex plots etc.

I totally agree that people who make a big deal about being top are trying to prove something. Funnily enough it's rarely the parents of exceptionally talented students who ask me where their child fits in the class. It's usually the parents of able but not exceptionally talented students.
It always make a me wonder whether parents of really bright students are happy with their children learning, are focussed on their child's progress and are more concerned with how their child can continue to grow rather than having some gold star comment to prove they are best.

Probably that's the case whatshappened. I'm positive my DD is not exceptional.

Amongst my oldest 2 dds peers there are several very academic young people who have struggled to launch into self sufficient adulthood and are taking time to find their place in the world. Their parents are now struggling with this.

I’m very sorry to hear that AJPTaylor but how is that relevant to the thread?

I don’t believe rhat any of the posters on this thread have said that the fact their D.C. seems to be quite bright automatically guarantees success in life?

None of them have said that being academically bright is the only thing that matters to them about their child.

In fact I don’t believe that any of the posters have even said that their child’s academic achievements were the most important thing about their child.

And there’s no correlation between “being academically intelligent” and “struggling to be self sufficient as an adult”. Struggling to be self sufficient is more likely to be a function of their personality and their upbringing, neither of which are relevant to how clever they are.

As for being “obsessed by reading age or book levels” Devilish I’m not. I’m simply answering the OP’s question.

I don’t discuss this in real life.
I don’t care where anyone else’s child is.
I didn’t even ask the teacher the information, she volunteered it.

The first three questions I ask at parents’ night are always these:

Are they happy?
Do they work well with others?
Are they well behaved?

The suggestion, tacit or not, that because I recognise that my child is achieving academically that I’m some pushy, preening rodomontade is fairly offensive.

It's all very much big fish small pond.
Through Primary school, my main questions were 1. Is he ok? 2. Is he happy? The day the school gave out SATS results was a bit of a downer as it was my Nan's funeral. As DS wasn't in, they rang me later on to give them. He did really well, and all I asked was whether it was a fair reflection of his ability. I could compare him nationally then when the figures came out if I wanted to. I find it useful to have the targets for GCSE now he's in year 9, as I can say to the subject teachers, are these fair targets, is he capable of these and is he on track?
I couldn't really give a fiddlers where little Johnny or Olivia or anyone else is in relation to him. It's not my business.
It did make me laugh when I came from parents evening in year 7 and a number of parents put on Facebook that their little darlings were going to get all A's at GCSE's, fair enough if you have been told that, but I know they weren't as I saw the same teachers and results 4 years away were never mentioned. Just think the kids coming out with less in nearly 3 years time are going to feel a massive disappointment to their parents.

well, I know where she is roughly compared to others because:

They do maths and english in ability groups, and she is in the top group. She tells me that very matter of fact way, as they all know it.
They have a challenge yourself system for extension work, and her table are told to do the hard one.

I used to go in and help with reading, so I knew exactly where the strong and weak readers were.

They occasionally have tests and she will come home and say - I got 29/30. But so and so got 30/30.

Lats year they did times tables sheets, and you had to work up through a set of sheets and she was 'trying to catch' child X and child Y who were on the next sheet up, and so she could place herself as no.3 in the class

In her report it says - exceeding expectations, so while it is possible that they whole class are, it is unlikely and more likely that she is in the top half/group that are working at that level.

Finally my older 2 have both passes 11+ and are at super selectives, and dd2 is just as intelligent.

I think you do know if your kids are clever and how well they are doing.
I would never talk about it in real life, especially not to other parents. My mum and I are both ex teachers, so I get a bit of bragging in with her!

At the moment though, dd2 is struggling (again) with friendships, and i would happily swap some of the brains for some friendship skills, as that will see her better through life

@maisypops can I be top of this thread?! I’ll ring my parents, I was never top of the class so it will give them something to boast about

Totally forgot about this one, by Y4 they were working with the local high school to set him more challenging work. We are extremely lucky that the school did this. So in Y4 he was essentially doing Y7 maths.

Hellohah
Very true on the big fish small pond thing. It's another reason why I find it silly for teachers to start telling people they are top of the class when most of the time it's 'child is very able in some areas and outperforms their peers in some areas but is entirely within a typical bell curve for a class of this age'.

Child gets to secondary. Ends up in set 2 or 3. Parent calls up furious because their child is in set 2 and they were too of the class at primary and their teacher said they were way beyond other children. Problem is child IS quite bright but when you take from 8 schools or more and each has their own top tables in primary, suddenly you have a lot of able children who can't all fit in one class. For a parent/child who loves the being top label, there's all kinds of issues by secondary (including complaining their child is clearly in the wrong set for subjects that aren't set!).

Then again maybe that's me with my secondary head on because it would seem from this thread it's mainly in primary schools where this top of the class chat dominates.

"These people saying "my child told me" - fair enough if they're 14, but if they're 8 or below they're just not a credible source really are they."
When it came to factual information my child was a credible source at 4. Not too difficult to know that they are in X group and the other groups are reading a book with a colour band they have already been on. Easy to see that the other groups are doing 'easy' maths, and that they can do the hardest questions in their group.

I've seen it on MN and in real life, at both primary and secondary.

I teach and have heard this via playground chatter among parents. Have heard parents say this to other parents, and know for sure that the child definitely wasn't. And others where they might be for one aspect of their learning but not in other areas.

I know my DS is a genius because some arrogant little shit in DDs class, a day after she failed the 11+, badgered her to find out DS’s score in the 11+ to compare with his top score.

It’s great, being academically gifted.

MaisyPops Every parent of a gifted child I have met (and we go to events for exceptional children so have met a few) are more worried about the other skills a child needs to learn, social, practical, emotional... A parent will always find something to worry about!

I keep quiet about my child’s progress because I don’t want to look like I’m boasting by just stating facts. It’s a shame really but of course my child knows I proud of them. When you are asked outright which level reading book your child is on and the room goes quiet because they are 3 or 4 years ahead of the next child in the class, it feels lonely.

Work ethic is the thing! Do they put the effort in?

Yy Aragog, the exceptional all rounder is a rare breed, especially in secondary. In primary I think it’s easier to excel across the board.

*I am...

Not too difficult to know that they are in X group and the other groups are reading a book with a colour band they have already been on. Easy to see that the other groups are doing 'easy' maths, and that they can do the hardest questions in their group.

But who actually cares? Reading bands at 5 tell you nothing about A level results (or whatever other measure of academic success you wish to take).

whatshappenednow
Of course. Worrying is natural.

My main idea was that parents of really exceptional students tend not to be the ones who love talking about how advanced their child is or asking the teacher to confirm their child is so much better than their peers. Parents of really bright children know their child is really bright and will tend to want to discuss ways to support their child further rather than be able to tell others 'Mrs Smith says my Sarah is an exceptional reader and far beyond anyone else in the class. In fact they are top of the class in everything.'

MaisyPops even with secondary I guess it's unfair too. I mentioned up thread that DS's school are going to publish and display the top 50% of kids in each subject. What this is for, I don't know. But his school is in special measures, and performs badly in results tables, so even if you're top it still skews expectations for GCSE's I think!
I think it's more important to understand what DS is doing individually, and not comparatively. I found it far more useful going to parents evening to be told, DS has this target grade for Maths (for example). He is capable of that but at the moment, he fails to show his working out so is only achieving a lower grade as when the exams come he will lose a lot of marks.
That's constructive, it helps, I go home, I say to DS, you need to pull your socks up and this is how. If they say ... "oh, he's top of the class, or not" ... that doesn't help at all, it means nothing!

Hellohah
That's awful. And I agree with you totally unfair.

It amazes me teachers do this. Whatever happened to knowing each child, praising their strengths, pushing them where they are really strong and talking about how to improve weaknesses? You know a focus on the actual learning process which helps children to make progress?

The special measures school I worked in had top set achieving a C on a good day. Rankings like that are meaningless as it's with reference to the cohort and school. Top set at that school would be the bottom 3 classes at my current school.

Reading bands at 5 tell you nothing about A level results (or whatever other measure of academic success you wish to take).
Where did I say that it did? I was responding to a post that suggested children under 8 were not credible sources of information. I did care how my child was doing as they were the second youngest in the class and it reassured me to know that they were not at a disadvantage because of this.

MaisyPops We're quite lucky with the school in that sense, or maybe it's just me, but most teachers have been like that when I've gone to parents evening. Most of them have given really constructive advice on him as an individual. I guess it's down to the parents as well, very common for them to want to know where they are in the class and that's the be all and end all. Many don't realise it's not important in the grand scheme of things. This perhaps makes the teacher feel the need to tell them. Who knows!