“My child is top of their class”

[BluthsFrozenBananas]

I see this on threads quite often, I just saw it on another thread. Or my child is on a higher book band than any other classmate, or is top in maths, and I wonder, how the hell do people know that?

My DD is in y6, at no time since she’s been in primary have I known her “ranking” in the class, or that of any other child. Neither did I have any idea what book band others were on in the days of reading books.

I get if your child is super bright and doing extension work far beyond their years you might assume they were “top” of the class, but even then surely it’s not a given as teachers don’t routinely give out information about other children’s accidemic achievements.

Or am I missing out on something and schools publish super secret league tables of children which only the parents of children at the top get to see?

If they are streamed for English and Maths then the children, and possibly parents if the teachers tell them, know what level group they are in. My kids school also separate the groups into ability by table so you’d easily know if they were one of the highest ability in a particular subject.
Teachers also sometimes tell you if your child is working ahead of the rest of the class at parents evenings (they may be more reluctant to make comparisons if they were working at a lower level to the rest of the class).
One of my kids is top of the class for English and at least one of the top for maths (2/3 of them very competitive with test scores and around the same ability). My other child is in top sets but around middle ability within the sets so not top of the class.
Unless you don’t talk to your kids or attend parents evenings then you must have a vague idea of performance in relation to their peers. And no I don’t look through book bags or quiz other kids because I’m not completely batshit.

I was just telling my DS the story of The Hare and the Tortoise today!

My DCs' primary school had fruit themed tables- never thought anything of it with my first two middle of the road. My youngest struggled (undiagnosed SEN) and spent two years with the rest of the lemons! I'm sure it was an honest mistake

I'm surprised teachers say a child is top of the class.
To me it seems to offer nothing to a conversation on the child's progress unless the aim isnfor your child to be better than others. A child could be 'top of the class' and still not being stretched or challenged. Top of the class also tells nothing of their ability in itself as it's benchmarked against others in the cohort. One place I worked the top set was C targets. Anotjer place i worked itnwas the norm for students in set 3 to get grade 7s and above (both non selective comprehensive).

If I'm ever asked by a parent where their child in comparison to others, I don't answer it. The important thing is how the child is making progress from their starting point, not competition witj others.

Teachers will sometimes tell you if your child is 'top' in a particular area
Eg my son was the best at writing in his class last year according to his teacher - I haven't had this with any of my other kids though

maisypops ah! Truths! Whilst DS1 is "top" (net ner ne ne nerr) - I look at his work and think fucking well should be. Whilst the teachers are filling me with praise i'm looking at the work and imo distinctly average for a child of the 70s. He's not challenged and the standards attained are, imo pitiful.

Interesting, I’d never actually say a child was top of the class- just as I would never say if they were at the bottom. I always talk about progress and what I am doing to support or extend that, but I’d never compare one child with another.
Frankly, it’s not relevant to you how another child is getting on so I’m not going to give you that information. Also, what would be top in one year would be mediocre in another- each cohort is different- so not really a good indicator of overall performance.

These things grind my gears a bit, it's fine to be proud of your child's achievements, we all are, but some of it is just pure Mum bragging - a family member posted on FB the other day a video of her flipping through her DDs school work and showing all the 100% with her narrating, saying "100, 100..." accompanied by a post saying what a dilemma she was in as her DDs Teacher had mentioned she was gifted and should get her tested as such, but what was she to do - it maybe wasn't intended to come across as it did, but it just seemed so very conceited.

They forget those of us with children who need additional support at school, which is no bearing upon their intelligence or what they will ultimately achieve in life.

These things are never across the board either, I remember doing really well at school, it was a small school and I thought I had it all sussed....until we moved house and I wound up in a bigger school which got me working harder as I wasn't on the same perch anymore.

A child may very well be top of the class, or perceived to be, at their current level, but that does not mean to say, obviously, that they will maintain that pattern throughout their academic journey.

It just incites competition, and detracts from who the children are themselves.

It’s fine for a teacher to say your child is one of the more able in the class but I’d guess saying ‘top of the class’ is more unusual. Either way if it was me I certainly would want to retain friends and not go shouting about it!

Also in wales they do yearly tests which we get results. The results are adjusted and compared to all other born in thier birth month.
The results are shown on a bar graph type thing with a cross to denote your child’s score.
85-115 is average range and so on. For English DS1 was off the bar as his score was unable to be calculated as it only went up to 140. So I do know that he is way above average in English compared to all other children in wales born in his birth month (autumn)

I say all this with the huge caveat that DS has only just started Y1 and therefore it’s impossibly early to tell what’s what and how things will pan out but his Reception end of year report has him Exceeding in everything. His teacher said he was demonstrating a y2 level in phonics/ literacy, maths, vocabulary, knowledge about the world (whatever the term for that is!), reasoning and logic, art - that he planned and drew versions of things before he made them was advanced. Other things he was just exceeding things because he’d literally never done them before like play football or use ICT but had been well rounded enough to do well.

I’ve always known he was smart but sadly so far he seems to hate school - talks about how boring it is and he hates having to learn things he’s not interested in. He was y2 reading level when he left reception but does NOT have a love of reading - it’s still seen as a chore. He can add basic fractions together but dislikes maths - doesn’t see the point unless it’s for something he’s interested in. This makes me pretty sad because I just wanted him to love learning! He just wants to learn about biology, science, make clay models and learn more and more about all things prehistoric or marine life. We have to find ways to get him to see that learning or doing maths can be fun - like he wants to work out his top speed as a carnivore and a herbivore so he’s motivated to learn about different measurements and how to work out speed so that’s something we’re doing at home at the moment.

But who knows how all this pans out. Surely it all levels out eventually anyway?

My husband is one of this (irritating) amazing all rounders. He’s really intelligent, physically gifted at anything, plays piano and any instrument he picks up, writes his own music and can draw really well. Luckily I balance things out by being really superbly average

I wouldn’t have a clue with mine. None of my younger kids Schools set. Only one I ever really knew was ds1 but he stayed on p levels for most things and made level 1 in maths.

I tend to avoid people obsessed with class position

It’s fine for a teacher to say your child is one of the more able in the class but I’d guess saying ‘top of the class’ is more unusual.
I suspect most of the time it's the teacher saying something like "they're at the top of the class" meaning top group/one of the more able, and parent hearing it as "your child IS top of the class".

I don't have a clue where DD2 ranks in her class. But DD1 just got the best GCSE results in her school and they reported her name to the local paper. So it's no great mystery how I know she's currently "top".

What does ‘top of the class’ even mean? Someone could be good at literacy but useless at using cutlery. In older years it makes more sense because you are talking about individual subjects - top of the class at art, useless at maths for example.

But in early schooling years it surely just means someone is good at literacy?

I am laughing at the lemons table though

There is apparently a boy in DD's class who always does best in every test. Consequently competitive children like DD make sure to ask him after every test what mark he's achieved. I'm fairly sure said boy (who I've never met and know nothing about other than his first name) is "top of their class"*

• though DD generally "beats" him in music - does that mean he's not top??

Equally, there is a boy in DS's year (this is Y10 BTW) who gets 100% or nearly 100% in every maths assessment they have ever taken (since Y7). Again, DS knows this because it's so impressive, his maths assessment marks are spread round the year as a source of wonder. Fairly safe to say this boy is top of DS's year in maths.

The most public thing I’ve seen was the year DS took the 11+.

Every year you know within a couple of days of results who passed, it’s all the kids talk about for days. And often kids discuss their scores. There’s a few that don’t but in DS’s year (they haven’t done this before or since) the county council published the scores for every boy and girl in every school.

And yes aware that 11+ is one test, one day, not the best indicator blah blah.

I find all this certainly very bemusing. I've been teaching for 15 years, and I couldn't/wouldn't tell you who was 'top of the class'. Partly because I think it's very damaging for a child to view themselves in this way. As damaging as viewing themselves as 'bottom of the class' in many ways.

But also, how do you measure 'top'? Top at maths? Is that the child who can rattle off times tables, the one who quickly sees how to solve a problem, or the one who frequently makes mistakes but can correct them and learn from them? Should I judge by ability, attainment, effort or progress? They don't all match up!

Yes, some children might score higher on a test. But the next day it might be a different child. Sometimes the ones with the highest scores make the least progress because they don't feel the need to put in the effort.

I just feel that reducing the complexity of the different needs of a class to who is 'top' 'middle' and 'bottom' is unhelpful and misleading.

DS's high school have just announced that they are going to display and publish the list of top 50% in each year and subject.
Kids will all be doing tests soon.
Not sure how I feel about this to be honest.

@hellohah that sounds awful. Why do they think that’s a good thing? What about the poor souls who don’t make the 50% cut?!

In our school they do accelerated reader and all the children throughout the school have their score on the classroom wall. So you can easily see where your child is compared to their peers.

Also they set for maths so you know (as the children know) which set they're in.

It doesn't mean a lot, as it depends on the school. I met a parent who said her child was top of the class in Maths at his Special School. She was justifiably proud, but in comparison to the general population he would be way behind.

I like the way parents are being slagged off for being proud of their child's academic achievement. I bet it wouldn't happen if a parent was saying their child had won a race, but we aren't allowed to discuss academic achievement without being overinvested or living through our children. My dd is hopeless at all things sport. Is struggling emotionally at school. The ed psych came in and said she's gifted and in the top 1% of the population. The school are putting a lot in place to help her, but the things that helps the most to make her happy is Work that's difficult...

@Nsbgsyebebdnd I have absolutely no idea. They haven't said why, just that it's happening.
It's a struggling school, special measures and are due to be taken over by a new Academy (the current one went bump) so they are bringing in allsorts. Not a deprived area, but a very working class one.
I don't know whether they think it will give the non-50% a kick up the bum, or it's a way of rewarding the top 50%.