Robbie and Ayda Anyone else uncomfortable with surrogacy in these circumstances?

[Charlottesspider0]

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2018/09/07/robbie-williams-and-ayda-field-announce-theyve-welcomed-a-daughter-by-surrogate-7922256/amp/

I don’t fully agree with surrogacy for many reasons. Impact on newborn being removed from the ‘carrier’, impact on potential surrogates health. Also, the fact that unless the surrogate is altruistic, even in the uk where there are restrictions on financial payments for surrogacy, it almost will still always involve a financially Richer person compensating a poorer woman.

However in the case of couples who can’t conceive themselves or via ivf, and same sex couples, I can see what leads people to seek surrogates.

However this article makes reference to the use of a surrogate because their work schedules are too busy.
They also have two healthy children.
I find it difficult to accept that they are willing use Another woman’s body to take the risks of childbirth, paticularly in their given circumstances.

I think you want a baby, before your 40th birthday as the article makes reference to, then do it yourself, take the risks yourself and sort out your own work schedule to suit. It’s not like they don’t have the money in the bank to do that.

And if after two healthy children, a third pregnancy doesn’t happen for you, be happy with what you have.

Robbies famous comment likening watching his wife give birth to his first child, to his favourite pub burning down, to me just makes renting another woman’s body even more distasteful.

The going rate in California is $80,000. Small change to Williams and Fields but a significant sum to a college student

I am not defending commercial surrogacy in any way

Just to make a factual point

A proportion of that cost will be legal and agency costs. IPs pay for the surrogate's attorney in the US. All her health care costs are on top of that. The actual surrogacy fee itself (separate from expenses) will be less than that

A college student is very unlikely to be taken on as a surrogate by a reputable agency unless she is a mature student, who has already completed her family, has a stable family home environment, and had straightforward pregnancies and deliveries

College students may well donate their eggs to earn extra cash - but are highly unlikely to become surrogates

At some reputable US agencies, there are 20 applications for every 1 surrogate taken on - as the counselling and vetting process is so extensive.

I have researched US surrogacy to understand more about how it works. I am not saying I condone this and I am not saying that there isn't massive potential for exploitation. I'm simply reporting my findings. Which are simply that. Not opinions or judgements.

I'm another one that thinks commercial surrogacy is abhorrent. And it's not a feminist principle in me - it's because I think it's really devastating for the child. It's so fucking entitled to think that no matter what your circumstances (like being unable to conceive a third, or being both biologically male) you should be able to 'get' a baby if you have money. Imagine knowing that your biological mother only had you for money or with the specific aim of giving you away. Devastating.

I can't imagine anybody would go through IVF without good reason. 3 adults made a decision that suited them. Some ladies sail through pregnancy, others don't. I thought it was recommended that ladies completed their own family prior to becoming a surrogate. Therefore ladies who struggled with pregnancy and birth are unlikely to consider surrogacy.

Bananafish
I honestly don't know what difference it makes if its a family member or friend who acts as surrogate. Some people won't have a friend/ family member able and willing to do it. I also imagine some surrogates would rather not have a personal relationship with the parents - see it as a business deal.
However I wish you every success in world if surrogacy is the route you opt for.

I assume neither of them will be taking maternity/paternity leave from X-factor

80k is what the surrogate gets. I assumed that was what people oau but I guess it will be more

I don't have any links to specific studies about surrogates and I'm not sure why you think it's any different for a baby to be handed to an 'intended mother' rather than a random person off the street. Studies show it's harmful for a baby to removed from its birth mother. Nothing else to say really.

Fair enough. You've got your opinions. I only have the data to go on. You're entitled to your opinions. I prefer to evaluate information based in solid research.

If the random stranger on the street is also the child's genetic mother, raises the child from birth, breastfeeds them, nurtures and parents them for life, then yes I would struggle to see any difference

Otherwise, there would seem to be quite a few differences between a baby being raised by its genetic parents vs one handed to a random on the street with no connection to either the birth mother or the genetic mother. You clearly don't see any difference though.

@Despacitoincognito have you spoken to any surrogate born children? Or to surrogates?

It has been a very long and difficult path to get here, which is why we have kept it on the down low Ayda's statement, doesn't imply they decided to just get a surrogate cos she couldn't be arsed to be pregnant.

It was previously claimed that Ayda wanted a third child before her 40th birthday, despite the couple’s busy schedules. A source told The Daily Star back in May: ‘Ayda and Robbie couldn’t be happier with their private life but feel one more baby would complete their family.
‘They’re hoping it will happen for them soon, but it’s tough for them to spend lots of time together as sometimes they spend weeks apart. But it’s top of their agenda when they do get time off from their hectic schedules.’
Again, that doesn't actually suggest Ayda is too busy to get pregnant, just that they are both busy and don't spend tons of time together.

Robbie is due on tour so he isn't doing the whole show apparently. Ayda will be filming for a few hours a day for live finals (currently not live!), so not like she's abandoning three kids n a coal shed. I bet they're on set tons with a Nanny for rehearsals and then they'll be home in bed when she's filming.

Oh honestly, who gives a total fk.

Tomorrow it will be something else to moan about. We are really good about judging everyone apart from ourselves!

@keyboardkate

Don't you think the wider moral issue of surrogacy and it's implications are worthy of discussion?

can’t imagine how a woman copes with being pregnant and giving birth with only money as the reward. It feels icky.

Well how about you ask the actual surrogates on this thread and on the AMA, who went through surrogate pregnancies - without money as the reward as they weren't paid

You can't imagine how a surro copes and consider that money is the only reward - why not ask the actual surrogates on this actual thread (or the actual AMA) who have actual experience of surrogacy - and the rewards they derived from their experiences. Imagine no longer.

cant imagine how a woman copes with being pregnant and giving birth with only money as the reward. It feels icky

Do you know what my 'reward' is? Getting photos of my surrogate child in all the phases of her childhood. Watching videos of her first steps, hearing the joy in her dads' voices when they tell me her first word. Attending her christening & birthday parties & seeing how much she dotes on her family - and them on her. My 'reward' is knowing i have helped create a family unit.

Surrogates don't enter into things lightly. We don't wake up one day & think 'ooh today i think i'll have a baby for somebody'. It's a process, and whether you go with an agency or go indi, it takes time.
With a few exceptions, my experience of surrogacy is that surrogates hold more control of the situation (in the UK at least) than the intended parents do. At least within the US the IPs have a bit more security.

All this said, i still do not like the idea of commercial surrogacy. I'm glad its illegal within the UK

PP who said Kim Kardashian used a surrogate because she could is way off base. She had horrible pregnancies and nearly died with her 2nd child. There was no way she could carry a 3rd child.

Kim Kardashian was very honest about her struggles with pregnancy. Having seen what friends have gone through when struggling with fertility I think it would have been better for some more focus on that. Sarah Jessica Parker and her DH were very honest and humble about their fertility issues and using a surrogate for their twins.

I'm pro-choice. The surrogate mother is an adult - she had a choice and she made it. It's none of our business.

What a horrid thread

There are lots of "horrid" things happening on a daily basis. It shouldn't stop the dialogue, or exploring different issues of morality and whether things feel right or wrong in society.

I'm not a 'seleb' watcher so I'm not invested in RW and his Missus, but I fall into the camp of feeling uncomfortable about giving someone cash to have a baby for them. All the stuff about "busy schedules", " wanting to have another one to complete the family" is like pointing at a consumer product and saying "I want one of those" - feels like life itself is becoming commoditised.

Then again, there's the argument that says putting any child into nursery could be due to a "busy schedule" so what's the difference? In amongst the hype is a baby, a human being, so one hopes to goodness the choice is a genuine one and the novelty doesnt wear off so all they do is just throw more wadges of cash at the problem.

The more I learn about attachment issues in babies, the more I dislike planned surrogacies.

I agree it's a horrible thread. So many people hoiking up their judgy pants, siting on their big high horse, looking down their nose, and scowling at people who do things differently to them.

It's got FUCK-ALL to do with ANYONE if a woman chooses to be a surrogate, so people need to keep their beaks out.

ALSO, so WHAT if the surrogate has not been mentioned? Why the fuck does she NEED to be?!

This thread needs to go, seriously. It vile.

Oh and I reiterate, no-one seemed to care about people using surrogates until THIS YEAR!

Must have needed something new to act all cross and aghast about!

Not sure where you've been but people have discussed surrogacy & the moralities of it for years 🤔

Please be careful waving attachment around as a reason against surrogacy. Some of us had to be separated from our babies at birth or they'd have died. Without ICU they wouldn't have survived. Not all ICU babies have attachment disorder. The same is true for adopted babies and those with kinship carers.

And that has been said numerous times. Feminists have been talking about this for years, please stop telling us we haven't.

@bingbongnoise so no one should be allowed to have an opinion on ethical issues because you think it’s vile and they should shut up? That is your arguement? Well I can see that is very well informed.

A surrogate has been on here who has openly said people have discussed these issues for years.
She has also made some very insightful comments into why she became a surrogate.

There is also a woman considering a surrogate who is exploring everything before she commits. Sounds very sensible.

Paying another woman to Take the risks, when you already have children will sit uncomfortably with some including me. It’s the idea of wanting that ‘perfect number’.
It’s like some people may want children of a certain sex and to them that would be their perfect family. But to meddle within that and use sex selection To buy this perfect family, has ethical implications.
It will receive judgement from others because people have and are allowed opinions.

I disagree with sex work because it has so much exploitation potential for women in paticular. It’s legal in some countries, should I shut up and stop being vile and judgemental about this too?

@pissedoffdotcom you have spoken about being a surrogate for non family members and the joy that it brought you to help create a family.
Could I ask if it would have felt the same for you, had the couple already had two children, and just wanted their perfect number?

Erm, @OrchidInTheSun I didn't get 80K... is that why surrogates do it then? You seem to know an awful lot, have you been a surrogate? I didn't receive anything from my sister. She bought me some new maternity clothes and I did it because I love her.

I'm confused by this thread, you're talking about this surrogate as if she's a poor, lowly lady who has been taken advantage of, you don't know who she even is or how she's related to Ayda?

Whilst I'm not saying there wasn't emotional difficulties after I had the baby, I was well supported and had prepared as best I could with professional help prior to the event. Some posts are talking about this situation as if an umbilical cord is cut, and the BIOLOGICAL parents grab the baby, and run from the room leaving 80k on the side.

Within the Western world there will always be demand for surrogates. And there will always be women willing to oblige. Note the word willing. When I was in the surrogacy world there was something like one surrogate for every four or five sets of intended parents though.

In many US states you cannot become a surrogate if you are on social security; this is to reduce the chances of 'poor' people choosing to enter into surrogacy purely for the money with no thought about wider impacts. In the UK we don't have that ruling but we do have expenses limits & you have to be able to justify your level of expenses to a CAFCASS officer & a court judge. And if either deem your expenses too low they will dig deeper to ensure you have not been exploited.

The process isn't an immediate one. It takes time to put everything in place to satisfy the court process at the end. As much as i personally do not like the commercial version of surrogacy, US surrogates in most states are very well protected. And in the UK, again in my experience, it is not surrogates vulnerable to exploitation, it is the IPs