Robbie and Ayda Anyone else uncomfortable with surrogacy in these circumstances?

[Charlottesspider0]

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2018/09/07/robbie-williams-and-ayda-field-announce-theyve-welcomed-a-daughter-by-surrogate-7922256/amp/

I don’t fully agree with surrogacy for many reasons. Impact on newborn being removed from the ‘carrier’, impact on potential surrogates health. Also, the fact that unless the surrogate is altruistic, even in the uk where there are restrictions on financial payments for surrogacy, it almost will still always involve a financially Richer person compensating a poorer woman.

However in the case of couples who can’t conceive themselves or via ivf, and same sex couples, I can see what leads people to seek surrogates.

However this article makes reference to the use of a surrogate because their work schedules are too busy.
They also have two healthy children.
I find it difficult to accept that they are willing use Another woman’s body to take the risks of childbirth, paticularly in their given circumstances.

I think you want a baby, before your 40th birthday as the article makes reference to, then do it yourself, take the risks yourself and sort out your own work schedule to suit. It’s not like they don’t have the money in the bank to do that.

And if after two healthy children, a third pregnancy doesn’t happen for you, be happy with what you have.

Robbies famous comment likening watching his wife give birth to his first child, to his favourite pub burning down, to me just makes renting another woman’s body even more distasteful.

I was also shocked by this news as they are both so busy with the X factor at the moment. Who on earth is going to look after this baby?

I've heard that a lot of celebrities (and non-celebrities) use surrogates from abroad, such as India. The women are being badly exploited. It's a shocking situation which the Indian government is trying to shut down.

I don't know where Robbie and Ayda's surrogate is from, but it seems to be in fashion these days amongst celebrities and that's worrying.

Charlottesspider0 i have 2 children of my own. I am very lucky i fall pregnant easy & until my last one, carry without any problems. My decision to have DS recently wasn't down to any 'magic number' but dp & i decided we wanted another child.

For me, people choose the number of children they would like & if they can support those children, who am i to judge? It would be very hypocritical of me to turn around & say somebody couldn't use a surrogate because they already have kids...when i have 2 of my own. If the reason they couldn't carry was medical or biological, i don't have a problem with how many children they have

TwoBlueShoes surrogacy within India for foreign couples has been made illegal now I believe. And rightly so

I would think it’s probably a going rate of $80,000 and a whole lot of “gifts” as well

$80k to carry a baby in the US isn't a lot when some agencies charge $50k for a donor egg. The risks involved are inherently different

@aceinthehole it sounds like you did an amazing thing for your sister.

@pissedoffdotcom that is interesting about the us system of not allowing those on benefit type finances to act as a surrogate.
It still doesn’t prevent maybe a woman in debt acting as a surrogate however.
Also do the health risks women take concern you? Paticularly abroad where there is no nhs (not that I’m even saying the nhs is particularly great at dealing with the horror of birth injuries, but what services are there, are free).
Does it concern you that women take these risks, and then who pays if anything goes wrong? What becomes of the mother then, who could be left with permanent life changing injuries?
When surrogates are used from India, this is something that really concerns me. I have read about women in developing countries with severe incontinence after childbirth are often cast out of their local communities. There just seems so much potential for women to be exploited.
Someone made a very good point earlier up, when rich women act as surrogates for poor women, then I will be far less concerned.

I really dislike this couple anyway, there's something very "off" about them. I feel like it's all very false. Besides that though I think I agree with you OP. I have a close family member who was born via surrogacy, in a situation that was about as altruistic as it's possible to be so I feel that I am probably being slightly hypocritical but I look at certain couples like Kim Kardashian, Robbie and Ayda and it all seems so shallow and superficial.

I have a massive problem with inter-country surrogacy. The rules in countries such as India (as i say i believe this is now illegal for foreigners) do not offer protection to anybody. Imo it should be stopped & surrogacy should only occur in the country the IPs reside in permanently.

Women understand the risks of pregnancy. It isn't something any sensible woman goes into lightly. IPs like surrogates to have had children of their own, because it means they have first hand understanding of what pregnancy does to their bodies, how their hormones change etc.
UK surrogates take out insurance - covered by the IPs for at least a year after the birth - so that should the worst happen the surrogate can access health care quickly without relying on the NHS. This also means that should, god forbid, the surrogate die, her family will get financial help.

The idea that surrogates are all low paid, desperate, vulnerable women is laughable to me, purely because i know it isn't true. I have met some surrogates who are high earners in well paid, high flying careers.
I've also met IPs - like my own - who were far from rich but who instead worked their socks off & went without in order to save enough to make their dream of having a family come true.

There are things i would change - both within the US & UK system if i had my way - but on the whole, surrogacy within both countries is far from exploitive

I knew I shouldn't have clicked on this.
I wish Robbie, Ayda and their children all the best.
There's a new, much wanted baby.
That's it

I thought the statement saying 'we have had a third child' was horrible. No they fucking didn't

YY. Tony Daly and his husband said something similar, their surrogate barely got a mention.

"We" could easily be referring to all three of the adults involved and they did thank the surrogate in their statement:

Family comes in all forms, and this little lady, who is biologically ours, was carried by an incredible surrogate mother, to whom we will be eternally grateful

I think when you put something out in public, or you play your life out in the public eye, you sadly have to expect conversation about your choices. They make their money from the general public, of course people will have opinions on their life choices.

Plus, things like surrogacy should be openly discussed imo. Otherwise it remains some seedy, taboo little topic that people have to pussy foot around

Why outsource something like that, then when you get the baby, both bigger off to work
Not like they even need the money or anything they already have two healthy children
And that’s why it doesn’t sit right

My understanding is that India has toughened laws against international surrogacy but there are loopholes, but focus has switched to various Eastern European countries and other Asian countries where governments are still happy to turn a blind eye for the right money.

Ewits yes the Robbie and Ayda thanked theirs, as they should, Tom (not Tony as I previously said, oops!) didn't thank theirs, and also bypassed U.K. standards by choosing a US surrogate. This says it all to me - UK surrogacy is tight and strict and involves ethics committees, payments of maximum of £750 for expenses, etc. You go abroad, and money will buy you whatever you like. Why would they want to bypass U.K. procedures? Big fat uterus-buying red flag right here.

Isn't Tom Daley's husband American? I thought they chose an American surrogate so that the baby would have dual citizenship.

It is now immensely difficult to get legal paperwork to assign PR to the intended parents from India. The 'loopholes' are not as open as people think.

Do you find this equally objectionable?

No - that was the whole point of my post

GunpowderGelatine £750 expenses is the maximum for egg donation in the UK. The current average expense amount in the UK is £15k

BTW in the US there is actually far greater provision for the wellbeing of the surrogate throughout, because the legal regulation mandates ongoing counselling, psychological support etc.

I have to disagree with you there - you can literally rent a woman and her fertility in the US, which makes women catastrophically more vulnerable (poor) than women in U.K. where you can't pay them anything more than a few hundred quid expenses. And I don't know about the US but the birthing mother in U.K. has automatic parental rights - so at least here the sanctity of giving birth is recognised.

Just out of interest, how do people know the surrogates are not paid extra / gifted stuff unofficially??? Surely very wealthy people have the ways and means to bung their surrogate significant amounts.

Pissedoff how much of that is the IVF/fertility treatment? From what I understand that isn't a lump sum to the surrogate mother, or it shouldn't be, because it's illegal to pay for surrogacy in the U.K.

It is now immensely difficult to get legal paperwork to assign PR to the intended parents from India. The 'loopholes' are not as open as people think.

But very easy for countries like the Ukraine.

I'm sure they do crunchy - so acting both illegally and immorally. Which is another reason why many people object to surrogacy

It’s becoming more common & I think if we fast forward 20 years it will be almost an accepted norm amongst the wealthy. Fast forward a bit more & some will ‘genetically engineer’ re: IQ, physical appearance, sporting ability etc. Brave New World possibly isn’t that far away.

I met someone recently who is using a surrogate, all arranged via a London clinic who also did the egg retrieval. She has a career that would be compromised by a pregnancy. Very open about everything.

I dont believe its true. There must be more hassle with using a surrogate. Medical collection, visits, tests, choices even. I suspect its something they dont wish to discuss.