Robbie and Ayda Anyone else uncomfortable with surrogacy in these circumstances?

[Charlottesspider0]

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2018/09/07/robbie-williams-and-ayda-field-announce-theyve-welcomed-a-daughter-by-surrogate-7922256/amp/

I don’t fully agree with surrogacy for many reasons. Impact on newborn being removed from the ‘carrier’, impact on potential surrogates health. Also, the fact that unless the surrogate is altruistic, even in the uk where there are restrictions on financial payments for surrogacy, it almost will still always involve a financially Richer person compensating a poorer woman.

However in the case of couples who can’t conceive themselves or via ivf, and same sex couples, I can see what leads people to seek surrogates.

However this article makes reference to the use of a surrogate because their work schedules are too busy.
They also have two healthy children.
I find it difficult to accept that they are willing use Another woman’s body to take the risks of childbirth, paticularly in their given circumstances.

I think you want a baby, before your 40th birthday as the article makes reference to, then do it yourself, take the risks yourself and sort out your own work schedule to suit. It’s not like they don’t have the money in the bank to do that.

And if after two healthy children, a third pregnancy doesn’t happen for you, be happy with what you have.

Robbies famous comment likening watching his wife give birth to his first child, to his favourite pub burning down, to me just makes renting another woman’s body even more distasteful.

I was a surrogate for two gay dads. One of the most wonderful experiences of my life. I'm absolutely in favour of surrogacy when there is a genuine reason people cannot have a baby themselves.
Commercial surrogacy such as this frustrates the shit out of me. It literally takes the piss imo

NO. Not uncomfortable at all. And I am sick of this idea that women who are surrogates, are poor, downtrodden waifs who are being forced into it. In the western world, this is not what happens! These women are not forced into it, and go along with it willingly.

Surrogacy has been going on since Biblical times, and now - all of sudden - people are all aghast about it, and saying what cunts people must be to use a surrogate, RIPPING a poor child away from its poor 'natural' mother.

Pisses me right off.

I think 3 consenting adults have made an informed decision. No one is being forced to do anything they don't want to do.
Everyone should leave them to it. I hope they are all very happy.

@keyboardkate

Gay men use surrogates to have a child. But we are not allowed to condemn that. Oh no.

Are you kidding?!

The hate and vitriol on here for Tom Daley and his husband, when they had a baby via a surrogate, was disgusting and vile. You're deluded if you think people are more accepting of gays using a surrogate. If anything, they are less accepting. WAY less.

Bing - I find Daley and Williams equally reprehensible. I was accused of homophobia for objecting to Daley's surrogacy. I'm not homophobic but I abhor commercial surrogacy

I am willing to bet @orchidinthesun that your disgust and dismay for surrogacy is quite new.

It is for everyone else.

No-one seemed to give a fuck about it til this year!

bingongnoise,

I do not agree. I think gay people using a surrogate is accepted, or should I say we are not allowed to disagree with it anymore.

TBH if a man can say he is a woman, and vice versa, and it is an accepted fact under Gender Recognition , then everything else is out the window now!

But hetero people using surrogates are demonised. That is the reality now.

We live in interesting times.

Since when did people take the metro as gospel?

It is nobody's business to judge here on what 'sources' say.

Whatever you think about surrogacy, it’s unfair to slate someone based on a source.

So all the people saying it’s ok would it be ok for Robbie to buy a kidney if he needed dialysis?

Or buy a cornea if he had sight loss?

I totally agree with you OP. I think it's beyond immoral to rent another woman's womb. I don't feel as uncomfortable when it someone doing it for a friend or family member though, and this country does seem to be pretty tight in ensuring both (surrogate) mother and child's needs are met through the process and beyond.

I think this is an excellent point too:

Robbies famous comment likening watching his wife give birth to his first child, to his favourite pub burning down, to me just makes renting another woman’s body even more distasteful

He also snapchatted himself dancing like a total dickhead whilst his wife was having contractions. This man does not respect women, least of all labouring women, and that just makes it all the more creepy TBH

I thought the statement saying 'we have had a third child' was horrible. No they fucking didn't

YY. Tony Daly and his husband said something similar, their surrogate barely got a mention.

I think commercial surrogacy is abhorrent. And no bing, my thoughts on the matter are not new.

No honestly I've felt like this for years. I'm a radical feminist

Actually feminists have been talking about surrogacy for years. In the same way we have talked about prostitution for years. Perhaps people are beginning to listen. Who knows.

People hate the idea of gay men using a surrogate. The hate i got when people found out i carried for a gay couple was ridiculous. I think people are deluded if they believe it is accepted

If it is not illegal there is nothing more to say really. Other than judgment of other people who operate within the law to do things we do not agree with.

There are lots of things that are not illegal which are morally reprehensible

orchid

I couldn't see any academic studies looking at surrogacy born children, who leave the hospital with their genetic mother who raises, nurtures and may often breastfeed as well. The baby goes immediately to the intended mother. The cases in your Google search didn't seem to make clear whether they included surrogacy or not. Interactions like skin to skin are mentioned - it's standard for babies to go immediately skin to skin with the intended mother, unless the surrogate prefers otherwise. Again, I have only skimmed the research so will read properly tomorrow.

I'd be keen to see any further research looking at separation in cases of surrogacy, with the outcomes you describe - would be grateful if you could point me in the right direction, as you are evidently very informed about this subject

This is simply one study, it's late and I'm on the app so can't dig out a wider range of research right now, but given I've been researching this issue quite considerably over the last year, met and spoke to numerous families with surrogate born children, I've come across a fair amount of literature

Eg https://academic.oup.com/humupd/article/22/2/260/2457841

According to these studies, most surrogacy arrangements are successfully implemented and most surrogate mothers are well-motivated and have little difficulty separating from the children born as a result of the arrangement. The perinatal outcome of the children is comparable to standard IVF and oocyte donation and there is no evidence of harm to the children born as a result of surrogacy

(research into domestic surrogacy only)

Be delighted to see more info with evidence to the contrary, as I'm keen to absorb as much information as possible - can you enlighten me?

There's an AMA with a lovely British surrogate, perhaps you could ask a genuine surrogate for their actual experience as regards the surrogate POV, as there's a lot of posts asserting what surrogates must think and feel: not sure how many posters have formed these opinions based on actually speaking to surrogates?

I'm a surrogate - AMA:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/AMA/3351444-i-m-a-surrogate-ama-if-it-hasn-t-been-done-before

bananafish81 good to see you on here 😁 mustbemad17 here (nc now cant remember password to change back!!).

Your point as always is valid. People make assumptions about us - and the babies we give birth to - without ever really discussing things. Firsthand knowledge is always useful!

I think it's beyond immoral to rent another woman's womb. I don't feel as uncomfortable when it someone doing it for a friend or family member though, and this country does seem to be pretty tight in ensuring both (surrogate) mother and child's needs are met through the process and beyond.

My friend has offered to surro for us (I absolutely never asked, wouldn't ever countenance putting a friend or family member in that position). She said she loved being pregnant but has no desire whatsoever for another child, esp now her DC are teenagers and ready to flee the nest! She said that it made her so sad to see us in such emotional pain at being unable to have a child, and that she couldn't have imagined her life without her own kids. And that if there was a way she could help us to have a much longed for and deeply wanted child, she would in principle be very happy to do so.

Which is an incredible offer. As I've said, I don't know if or how we will proceed

Do you find this equally objectionable?

BTW in the US there is actually far greater provision for the wellbeing of the surrogate throughout, because the legal regulation mandates ongoing counselling, psychological support etc. In the UK because the law doesn't permit surrogacy arrangements to have any legal standing, there is no guarantee at all that the surrogate will receive the appropriate support. This doesn't tend to happen in practice, but UK law actually offers very little protection to the surrogate, and most surrogates I've spoken to would advocate for greater regulation.

I will of course defer to the surrogates on this thread, and wouldn't dream of speaking on their behalf!

Intended mother is a phrase that fills me with horror I'm afraid banana. I don't have any kinks to specific studies about surrogates and I'm not sure why you think it's any different for a baby to be handed to an 'intended mother' rather than a random person off the street. Studies show it's harmful for a baby to removed from its birth mother. Nothing else to say really.

Links, not kinks.