I'm queer. AMA?

[Throwaway4Water]

Using a throwaway account for this.

Hey Mumsnet, figured more queer rep was needed on this site.
I'm Genderfluid, which is under the trans umbrella and means my gender is fluid and changes often. I'm also Asexual, and currently questioning my romantic attraction.
Anything phobic will be ignored (I know what this site is like when it comes to trans people) as well as anything I deem too personal. Now, AMA! :)

[Throwaway4Water]

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz Of course. I wouldn't try and force someone who doesn't believe the same thing as me to "join my side" or whatever, just as I hope those people wouldn't try and do the same with me. It's just that- an opinion.

[Throwaway4Water]

@Auntieobem Yes, I do think gender and biological sex are different and have no impact on each other. I'm proof of that

[Throwaway4Water]

Crikey, I'm still answering questions from 4 hours ago lol. I'm gonna take a break and go to sleep and come back tomorrow. Just so people don't think I've "run away from the questions" again😅
G'night folks

[RenegadeMatron]

@Throwaway4Water

@Auntieobem Yes, I do think gender and biological sex are different and have no impact on each other. I'm proof of that

So if gender and sex are different, then isn’t it right that sport is segregated by sex?

That it’s segregated by sex obviously angers you - why do you think sport should be segregated by gender?

Especially as you yourself say there is no definition of gender / male / female.

[Auntieobem]

@Throwaway4Water

@Auntieobem Yes, I do think gender and biological sex are different and have no impact on each other. I'm proof of that

I think that's the crux of the matter. It's your biology which makes you male or female, and that's not affected by whether at any particular point you feel more feminine or masculine. Pronouns aren't used by others to reflect how you feel, they are used objectively re your biological sex. It's fine, normal, common, usual to be a woman and not conform to female gender stereotypes- doesn't make you any less of a woman.

[RenegadeMatron]

In order for our species to continue, two types of biological sex are required. That IS binary, immutable.

Humans will die out, if not for males and females procreating.

Your gender is what’s in your mind - and you can change that as easily as you can change your mind.

[mumda]

What colour is your hair dyed?

[5zeds]

If I told you changing your pronouns daily would make it very hard for some people to communicate with you, could you accommodate them by accepting that they use the pronouns that reflect your sex?

[TabithaTittlemouse]

You’ve described waking up and feeling that you are male or female, changing your voice and actions to suit. Not being able to describe it but just knowing that’s who you are today. Do you think that you may be experiencing dissociative identity disorder?

[ComtesseDeSpair]

@Throwaway4Water

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz Of course. I wouldn't try and force someone who doesn't believe the same thing as me to "join my side" or whatever, just as I hope those people wouldn't try and do the same with me. It's just that- an opinion.

But insisting that other people use your correct pronouns whenever you change your identity is insisting that they “join your side” and acknowledge gender exists, and that it can be fluid.

The problem I have with gender is that it’s pretty much a singular example of where it’s argued that something entirely invisible, entirely inside the head of an individual experiencing it, should be externally recognised as completely true by somebody else who does not experience it. I absolutely believe, for example, that a devout Christian or Muslim deeply feels – knows, even - inside their own head and heart, that God is speaking to them and that he exists. But that is not proof that God does exist, and nobody calls for atheists or those of other faiths to alter their belief system because the feelings of those Christians and Muslims is evidence of existence.

Do you think we should treat religion or faith the same as you think we should gender, and agree that as some people experience an inner feeling of a god that must mean a god exists, in the same way as some people experience an inner feeling of gender, that means it exists?

[RenegadeMatron]

The problem I have with gender is that it’s pretty much a singular example of where it’s argued that something entirely invisible, entirely inside the head of an individual experiencing it, should be externally recognised as completely true by somebody else who does not experience it.

Thank you for this.

Exactly.

Every single non-binary, gender-fluid person insists gender is The Most Important Thing.

But not one of them can define it.

And they expect everyone to go along with it.

And silence people when they don’t.

[ComtesseDeSpair]

@Throwaway4Water

@ComtesseDeSpair In my gender specifically? No. In learning about gender identity and expression and stuff? I always care about educating others if they want to be educated. Teaching people makes me happy, and in some ways can help me learn more about myself.
My identity and expression are a big part of myself, but it's not the only thing that defines me. It's just the part that the most amount of people need more education about.

Thank-you for answering. Here’s an extended metaphor:

Imagine if I said that I expected you to recognise when I am feeling happy or sad or worried inside, even when I am not necessarily looking happy or sad or worried on my exterior. And imagine if I said that I wanted you to acknowledge those different feelings I might have by calling me by a different name according to each of my feelings. So that if you guess I’m happy today, you’ll call me Natasha. But if I’m actually feeling sad today, I’ll correct you and you need to call me Lucy. I might even get angry or upset with you about it, because you guessed incorrectly and mis-feelinged me, or because you should have made sure to ask before you spoke to me whether I am Natasha or Lucy or Fatima today..

That sounds ludicrous, doesn’t it? You’d think I was incredibly odd, right? You’d probably try to avoid talking to me altogether, wouldn’t you?

Can you see why many people feel similarly about gender and pronouns?

This is why I asked about whether you feel others are genuinely interested in your gender and pronouns, and what impact you think your focus on it has on your life and career. Because I simply cannot imagine going to see my CEO one day and telling him the above Natasha / Lucy / Fatima nonsense. What I can imagine, is exactly what would happen to his opinion of me and my career if I did. And yet so many people think it’s absolutely acceptable – essential, even – to give their colleagues that same spiel with the feelings happy / sad / worried and names Natasha / Fatima / Lucy replaced with the feelings male / female / neither / both and the names he / they / xie / meow, quite without insight as to how other people think about it.

[user2345266]

I don't want to offend, just a genuine question I would love to know the answer for.

Why can't people be a female that just dresses like a "male" or enjoys "male" activities but still technically be a female? Why would this offend you so much to technically be a she and a female?

Thanks in advance for educating me!

[HermioneWeasley]

If you’re over 18, how do you support yourself?

[CataTonic58]

What's your favourite song?

[Soontobe60]

@Throwaway4Water

@p1n3apple It used to be a slur, yes, a slur that we're slowly taking back by using it ourselves. It's taking away some of the ammunition that used to be used against us by normalising it for personal use. If someone still finds the word offensive, for whatever reason, that's okay! Personally I love the word and use it to describe myself if I don't want to go into specifics (bc explaining that can take a while).

Who’s ‘we’? It still is used as a slur - for homosexual males and females. So unless you’re homosexual, then it’s not a word you’re ‘taking back’ because it was never used for non homosexuals in the first place. And if you’re ‘asexual’ you’re certainly not homosexual as you declare not to have any sexual attraction. Ergo someone who’s ‘asexual’ cannot claim to be ‘queer’. That’s on a par with someone who’s white appropriating the label ‘n**r’, and frankly is completely offensive.

[Soontobe60]

@Throwaway4Water

@TinselAngel Gender Identity cannot change. You are who you are from the day you were born. I was Genderfluid from the day I was born. My Gender Identity doesn't change in the way of "some days I'm Genderfluid, some days I'm not" bc I'm always Fluid whether I align with my agab or not. My identity just happens to be one that means how I present myself is what changes

Where about on your birth certificate does it say what ‘gender’ you were assigned when you were born?
the only thing you are when you’re born is either male or female. The only information on your birth certificate that is accurate and can never change. Your sex, your mother’s name, your date and place of birth.
‘Genderfluid’ is a meaningless concept made up by some overpaid navel gazer at Stonewall.

[Soontobe60]

@Throwaway4Water

@donquixotedelamancha "in the sense I'm using it"? I don't quite understand what you mean, but if you mean what I am as of typing this, I'm masc and using he/they pronouns😊
I mean in this context that sometimes I'm a boy, sometimes I'm a girl, sometimes I'm neither, sometimes I'm both, and sometimes I'm all of them(those are tiring days lol).
And I'm an adult, and that's as specific as I'm gonna go. Don't wanna dox myself too much ¯<span class="underline">(ツ)/¯

As you have breasts, then you’re either of the female sex, or of the male sex with gynecomastia. Your sex cannot change in a whim. How you present can. Wearing a bra doesn’t make someone a woman. Not wearing a bra doesn’t make someone a man. That’s what gender identity does - it puts people into compartments. Bra wearing, make up wearing, high heels wearing - must be female.

[5zeds]

I think OP was fairly clear se was female but describes and insists/encourages others to describe her as male sometimes and that this changes day to day.

[Riverlee]

@Throwaway4Water

@JaneJeffer It stands for assigned gender at birth :3

How can someone be assigned ‘gender’ at birth? Surely, you’re assigned a sex, not gender? Actually, you’re not even assigned, because the phrase ‘assigned’ sounds like an active process of labelling something. My dc weren’t assigned, they were born male.

Should I have dressed my second boy in pink so I had ‘one of each’ (for the record, I love Having two boys), even though dc 2 is definantly a boy and has all the boy bits. If I dressed him as a girl, would that have made my baby boy a girl?

[RenegadeMatron]

Are the questions getting too hard for you OP?

[Danceswithwhippets]

@Throwaway4Water
I’m the father of a trans male, who is in a relationship with a non-binary person.
He wears a “he/him” badge, and dresses very colourfully and most people would assume he was female.
Speaking as a parent, who now has a child who started out in life very differently, and who I continue to love very much, it’s good to come across someone like you in a forum like this. Most people don’t get the opportunity to ask questions, and have them thoughtfully answered. The media can be appallingly polarised.
I’m really pleased that you’re taking the time and trouble to patiently explain yourself.
Continue to ignore the narrow-minded posters!

[BiscuitLover3678]

Thanks for this thread and your very reasonable and thoughtful replies.

Im trying to be as open minded and supportive as possible, but I have been very conflicted about recent discussions of gender. I find it really difficult to talk about in real life as people are very passionate about it and it tends to be a lot of aggression from either ‘side’.

The sport one is something I find difficult though. I agree trans people should 100% be allowed in sport and something needs to happen, but how do you think we can make it ‘fair’ for transwomen competing with biological women? Due to the very different sex differences and absolute advantages of male puberty? Should we say sport doenst have a gender and we stick to sex and sex based differences? Or we categorise people in a completely different way and mix sexes and genders? What is your thought?

And lastly, can you understand why some women are so angry and upset with the trans movement even if you think they’re wrong? And see where the conflicts lie?