My kids were taken away from me by SS for 5 years - AMA

[InABetterPlaceNow]

I might regret this! NC for obvious reasons.

Just thought it might be helpful for those worried, those going through it, etc.

@honeygriff

OP you are fantastic! Your kids know 100% that you have fought hard for them. I have the greatest respect for you as I'm sure your journey has been bloody tough to travel.

Thank you!

They do, which makes up somewhat for what a let down my ex is to them deep breath.

When my eldest was at the worst with her mental health, she said that I was her inspiration and the reason she was fighting it so hard, like I fought for them. Makes me a bit teary to type. Ofc it would have been far better had I got us out many years before, but I've had to make peace with that.

@BlueberrySugar

Do you worry that they would end up in the same position if they decide to have children?

I know sometimes people can break away from it but sometimes they end up in the same cycle/system.

Yup, I worry about this.

I think my younger two will probably be OK. I have age appropriate discussions with them about abuse, and we'll cross the bridge later when they are old enough on partners and life choices!

With my eldest, I've had real talks about using protection etc and about abusive relationships but she's still very vulnerable. If it happens in the next 5 years or so, I'd assume it would trigger an automatic referral due to her history and her current MH. I'd hope the services would see my track record of working with services and allow them both to stay under our roof to make things safe.

Hopefully that doesn't happen! I absolutely want to stop the cycle for our family, so I'll do whatever's needed to make sure that's the case.

@KarmaViolet

If you had to go to court, how did you find it? What could be done to improve it?

Yup, I went to court a couple of times. The most recent was the best as it was via Zoom! Only in the fact that I didn't have to be under the same roof as my ex.

I thought it was fine - my woman's aid worker came with me when it was in person so she made sure we got a room / was able to stay away from ex. Things never progressed to me needing to take a stand, so it was mostly box ticking based on statements.

No changes, except for all the waiting! It might have been different had I needed to speak I think.

@Whattheduck

I wish you and your family every happiness for the future

Thank you!

@ChristmasPlannier

You are so strong. So glad you were all reunited

Have SS protected you & your DC from your ex?

Thank you!

So, yes and no...

It was clear in the beginning that their job wasn't to protect me, only my kids. I had to find my own support, and while that was horrible at the time, I can see why that is now. They needed to see me be able to reach out to services, advocate for myself (in order to be able to advocate for my kids) and stand on my own.

They did absolutely protect the kids.

There were a few instances where they opened me to risk. Once both me and ex were copied into an email (I'd changed my email so he didn't know it), which gave him my email address. Not major, but could have opened me up for harassment.

More seriously, when they served court papers to us both early this year they forgot to redact my address in one part. Thankfully my solicitor noticed and it had been served person so they were able to go and switch bundles within hours. I had a good few weeks of sleepless nights over that, but touch wood it seems to have been done in time. If it ever turns out he managed to get my address through that, then I will take them to court under GDPR. I was fuming. My lovely social worker bore the brunt (I was polite but firm on how it was absolutely not OK).

@Sickening

It really worries me to read this kind of thing - I'm glad for you OP, really glad, but it scares me to read you say you minimised it and then as a result had your children taken away.

I've had a therapist tell me I am minimising things, but it honestly always seems to just about stay the 'right' side of the border, and it makes it so difficult to see whether I am being unreasonable or whether this is not liveable with.

When I tell people who don't know him what he's done, they say LTB. But when I tell people who DO know him, they say how much of a good un he is, and I can see why they'd say that. They're as confused as I am.

But then, I tell myself, nobody's perfect, me included, and so I should just stop fretting and get on with it. It doesn't help the kids are so scared we will split up. If they were begging me to, that would make it much more clear cut.

But anyway, well done for fighting for your children and I am so glad you got them back. I hope all your wounds get mended faster than you dare hope.

Thank you for your kind words

@MummyofTw0

Welldone. You've worked really hard xx

Thank you!

@Closetbeanmuncher

Do you think you would have left him without social services intervention?

I think you've done brilliantly to get them back. There seems to be a common theme with social workers from what I've seen that they insist the woman leave the relationship but then won't involve themselves in ensuring the man has no access to the children.

Kick up the honests nest and then leave everyone to get stung and swan off to kick the next nest. I think many of them are deeply incompetent, clueless do-gooders but yours sounds great tbh.

I had tried to leave, many times. Each time my strength and will lessened a bit I think. I would have left eventually (had I not been killed or taken my own life which is awful!!) but probably not unless another serious attempt on my life had taken place. I always felt I needed some kind of recent, serious incident to get support / help to do it, which was absolutely crucial.

Yes, I’m incredibly lucky that he only had supervised contact and I wasn’t made to try to facilitate that. Actually I missed that out when I replied on them protecting me. This was key to protect me, I wasn’t put in a position, ever, where I had to try to mediate that, or that he was in a position to try to pass messages through the kids etc (he tried still!). I really feel for the women who are put in that position and it’s a real mixed message.

He’s now chosen not to see them as he’d need to pay for contact privately (he pays no maintenance either). I honestly think that’s for the best for them, but I’m glad I didn’t have to make the decisions around it.

@snowdaysalldays

I just wanted to say well done and thank you for sharing your experience and offering really practical advice. I hope you can recognise all you have achieved, not easy at all.xx

Thank you!

@Jumpingintosummer

You should be so proud of yourself. Do you mind if I ask, you say you changed professions and are well educated, we’re you supported well or judged badly by colleagues?

Absolutely supported.

I'm quite picky with who I share details with, but those I have trusted have been amazing.

My old company was very small and on the point of collapse anyway. It worked well how them to make me "redundant" so I could go on benefits to do all the courses etc - side note, and I hope it's still the case, if you're a victim of domestic abuse (woman's aid can provide the evidence) you can have a grace period for needing to look for work etc. I also applied for discretionary payments for council tax / housing up until the initial court proceedings was over which helped make up the shortfall for lost benefits. My work friends were brilliant in terms of support.

I count myself very lucky in my current company. HR know my complete circumstances along with my manager. They supported me fully when I needed to have time off work for 9 months to support my eldest with her mental health. They tried to get me GIP but the claim was rejected, so it was unpaid, but they've welcomed me back on part time hours until I can come back full time.

As I mentioned before, we now have a page on our Intranet to signpost advice for those experiencing domestic abuse that I helped to work on. I'm really glad it went up before lockdown and hope that if anyone needed it, that it helped. We also put up posters in all the loos.

That being said, I'm quite guarded in who I tell my story to.

@BlackIsQueen

Op when you are ready to write the book, let me know and I'll help you write the best proposal.

Thank you so much!!

@Livelovebehappy

5 years is a hell of a long time. Are you worried that some time in the future your children will develop mental health issues as a result of the time spent away from you and, if so, how will you deal with it?

I've covered this now in other posts! There has definitely been fall out, and it's ongoing. It's hard to say how much was the abuse, how much was the separation, how much is genetics (MH issues run deep in our family).

I have open and honest conversations with my kids. I give them my wisdom and advice. I listen to them and give them lots of hugs! I recognise when I'm out of my depth and ask for help from professionals. I put them above anything else, work etc - the other stuff will sort itself out but they need me the most.

I also actively make sure I'm OK. I push for counselling when I'm struggling. I recently went back in ADs as once my eldest was stable I realised I'd been running on empty serotonin and needed a boost as I was stuck in fight or flight! I read self help books, read about other people's experiences to feel less alone and get new ideas to try. I forgive myself for things I've got wrong in the past and do my best to be the best support I can for them going forward.

@Muttly

OP you sound absolutely amazing. My DHs father has only recently been served with a protection order following decades of abuse on DH’s mother, physically for the earlier years but now more coercive control type behaviour and psychological and emotional abuse. The trigger for the order was that he attempted to lock DHs sister into a room and then later pulled a machete on DH when he confronted him. So now my FIL is mid seventies and he is still causing absolute mayhem in MILs life and obviously his 3 kids lives. You have saved you children from this experience. MIL is still like you described yourself absolutely minimising, denying the abusive behaviour but add to that manipulating the her kids to stay in FILs life when at this stage they just want a relationship with her. You also saved your kids from having to deal with you being like that.

I know you probably carry guilt from what has happened and that is getting in the way of your recognising the extent of your achievements in this, but you are talking about saving teenagers from this abuse, and that wasn’t in any way easy. My MIL is a lovely woman but she is FILs number 1 enabler and getting out of it is just a dream for her. Imagine the fallout for you children if like in my DHs family the abuse went on into the kids forties like it has done for DH’s siblings. You are an absolute hero.

God, that is heartbreaking. And very much could have been a future glimpse of my own life.

I worry sometimes that my kids might decide to seek him out / be sought out once they are 18. If so, we’ll cross that bridge and I hope to be their sounding board. I hope your DH and his siblings are able to get some therapy if they haven’t already to process.

MIL sounds really codependent, and it’s unlikely there is anything that can be done without therapy. That’s a very long time for it to be ingrained. The only choice may be to go NC, but I know that is easier said than done. I hope you all manage to fine a way through!

Sending all my love your way

@Mumwind

Ah I love this thread, many congratulations to you for turning it around OP. You sound pretty amazing to me.

I had a child removed at birth when I was 18 for very similar reasons, abusive partner with a history of DV against women and SS felt I was minimising the abuse. He'd had a child put up for adoption some years before I knew him, because that child was exposed to DV between parents, but he told me a very different version of course.

At the point they got involved (after I confided in my midwife that there waa financial abuse) he was yet to physically hit me, but given his track record they believed he was already doing so and that I was covering it up.

They came down hard on me and removed baby under the risk of future emotional harm as they weren't taking any chances. I was traumatised and clung to my abuser, he hadn't hit me yet after all so I saw SS as the enemy. I didn't think he ever would.

Of course he then did.

By the time he did hit me, shortly after baby was born, I was too scared to admit it as I didn't trust them. I felt it would be used against me.

The only silver lining was that he didn't get chance to hurt my son. He was safe with foster carers. Unfortunately I had no family who could look after him and was very much on my own. Foster care with a view to him being adopted was their only option in their view.

Whilst proceedings were still on-going I left the abuser and moved into a women's refuge. I started opening up about the abuse (it had become physical and sexual by that point) but it was too late, the case needed to be wrapped up within 5 months and they weren't satisfied that I could keep myself or baby safe.

A judge approved baby to go for adoption which SS had been parallel planning for all along (and I understand why now, but I didn't then) and I never saw him again. Devastating.

It turned my world upside down but I vowed to change my life in the hope that one day he would come looking and I'd be somebody worth knowing. I put in alot of work on myself, moved hundreds of miles away, did courses, read alot and educated myself on domestic abuse and the psychology of abusive men.

Years later I went on to meet my now OH and we conceived a baby, our DC1. I referred myself to SS and asked for a pre birth assessment. I wanted to prove myself and ensure I did everything right that time.

The social worker I got was an angel from heaven I swear. She believed in me and worked with us both to ensure the assessment went well. Both she and her managers were impressed with my level of introspection and understanding of risks posted in the past. A PLO meeting was scheduled with SS legal team as it's standard practice here when a mother has had a child removed at birth previously / adopted.

Two days before I went in to labour I got the call that everybody was satisfied that DC1 wasn't at risk and didn't meet the threshold for removal or even CPP. SS were happy for us to be supported by the health visitor, like normal families are. They saw no need to remain involved whatsoever and told me they'd be closing my case.

SW came to visit after DC1 was born to return a bundle of court documents to me that I gave her during the assessment. She bought DC1 a teddy bear and told me how our case had really moved her / she was proud of how far I'd come.

I cried when she left as I didn't want to see the back of her ha ha.

Fast forward to now we have two beautiful children and are expecting our third in 4 weeks time.

Like yours OP, the social worker who helped me so much went on to be promoted. She's a manager now and I've never met a SW more deserving of the role than her.

Not a day goes by that I don't think about my birth son and every year when I send a letterbox update I ache to see him. Sadly adoption is for life and there's just nothing I can do until he chooses to come looking. I often get consumed with feelings of injustice, IE "he should be here with me, I have proven myself, I can safeguard him now" but at other times I'm at peace because he's settled and his adoptive parents have given him such a wonderful life.

Still, I often wonder how things could have panned out differently if I had support all of those years ago, family who could have stepped in whilst I made the right changes.

It's so heartening to read from somebody who managed to get their children back, it's incredibly rare and you should be very proud ❤❤

Oh my lord. Thank you so much for sharing your story. There are so many similarities and my heart breaks for you that your son was adopted.

Adoption was mentioned many times at the start and was my worst fear. Thank god they were very slightly too old, and we had family to take them in. My story would have been the same otherwise.

The timelines for court, I believe, are far too short to be able to prove any kind of meaningful change in these circumstances. It means that for people like you, who were absolutely capable of making the needed changes, loose the chance of reunification. It’s a real trigger point for me and I’m angry on your behalf that you fell victim to that.

I’m so glad you’ve been able to have a family with your OH and took all the proactive steps to make sure you were signed off. I know from experience that takes real bravery as I know the real fear that you are knowingly opening yourself up to the risk of it going the other way.

I’m glad you have letterbox contact. I really hope that one day he will get in contact and you can build a relationship. I know it feels like a lifetime, but there’s so many more years of your life where there is a real chance you’ll be able to do so. You’ve done everything you can to give this the best chance of success by turning your life around.

I think we will always ask ourselves “could things have been different if x or y”. But we did the best we could at the time with the tools, resources and experience we had at the time. You have the rare gift of being able to appreciate the kids who love with you in a way many other parents can’t. When I’m facing something really tricky with them, there’s always a voice in the back of my head which says “I LOVE this, because it’s ME having to deal with it” - if that makes sense?

All my love to you, and thank you again for sharing your experience. You have done brilliantly and will be a better parent / human being for everything you have gone through and overcome

@mathanxiety

* FAB course (found online) * Counsellor for sexual abuse (search online, free services nationwide) - 6 months * Reading everything I could online

Can you give details of all of these, how to access, contact details?

I have asked MNHQ to put this thread in Classics or to archive it somehow for ease of reference.

Well done on turning it all around

Aww thank you!

So it looks like the FAB course is specific to my area, which is a real pity because it was fab! It stands for Feelings Affect Behaviour.

I think on that point I would say to search Google for “parenting courses in my area”, and take what you can.

The LA will likely mandate certain courses, but it helps to ask them to signpost you to any others available. Once on those courses also ask the course leader for any other courses available that they know of.

Woman’s aid will be best placed for ones around domestic violence, and again ask for recommendations.

I took anything that was even slightly related! I probably went a bit OTT (I ended up being nominated for an award for how much learning I’d done on well-being that year, given out by the mayor 😂 sounds silly, but it was a real boost at the time).

The courses themselves are really helpful, but it also connects you with other people facing similar things which helps you feel less alone and isolated. If you really engage, it also gives you the chance of professionals who can provide character references to court to show you have an understanding of concerns and are really grasping the issues.

For counselling, I accessed Yellow Door (https://yellowdoor.org.uk/) which again I think is area specific. I believe woman’s aid referred me there. However, again, keywords would be “domestic abuse counselling in my area”.

In terms on things online, I read a lot of case law, which won’t be for everyone! (https://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=fo6)

Family Rights Group are excellent (https://frg.org.uk/) - they have a forum where you can read about other people involved with social services, or post for advice yourself, along with a helpline.

Some great book recommendations:

“Why does he do that” - Lundy Buncroft
“How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk” - Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish (I’d recommend this for all parents!)

@Rachie1973

I’m on the flip side of this. I have an SGO for my 2 granddaughters

Their parents are lovely, truthfully, but are still working toward being able to understand their parts in what has happened to them.

Thank you for providing a safe home for your grandkids! You are doing both them, and their parents such a service compared to the alternatives that are out there.

I hope they can make the needed changes to be able to look after them themselves

@Nomorefuckstogive

This is an amazing thread. Gives such hope to those in a similar situation. Well done, OP, you’ve done an incredible job. As others have said, it’s so good to hear of working with SS, and to hear them spoken about so warmly.

Thank you!

@GingerScallop

I don't remember reading every question and every answer on a thread but I have. You are amazing and your insights are gold (e.g our flippant LTB when we haven't been 'there'). I also appreciate you showcasing good social workers. They are often vilified but their work is so so important. They need good training, support, a system that backs them etc. I come from a country without (real) social worker support and really really wish we had that. So much abuse and so generational pain and patterns. I wish you the very best and hope your case will be written up and publicised as best practice. What an amazing mum you are! What an amazing human your sw is!

Thank you!

Yes, when I read a post that triggers me, it’s hard to read the LTB replies because while that’s absolutely what’s needed, the OP likely isn’t in the right place to do so and it can be downright dangerous if not done with support.

Completely agree with everything you have said about social workers. I feel for them as they are currently stretched so thin that they honestly have no hope of providing the services that are needed (and life changing) despite many desperately wanting to!

I hope your country can work on it! It’s definitely a generational thing, and my hope is that enough support / awareness can come through to stop it in its tracks.

I’m working daily on being the best mum I can! (Though my kids often label me the best mum ever which is good enough for me!).

And she is the best. When she was promoted I was so scared we’d lose her and have a bad ‘un. None of the other social workers have been as good (though she set the bar high!) but she’s always been there in the background if I needed her. I think we might be a bit special to her too.

@drspouse

We have had SW involvement and I agree they are a hugely mixed bag (both DCs adopted, and DS has SEN so there have been quite a few around, but also I'm thinking of teacher/other professional comments).

When you say that you try and not let SW comments affect you/let them roll off you, how do you deal with that if there's a really unhelpful suggestion/comment that they keep harking back to?
We had a long period when professionals kept suggesting our DS had a learning disability and all his problems would be solved by going to the local MLD school. He's now 2 years on from that time and during lockdown he did a "missing" year of Maths in 3 months - but this wasn't a one off suggestion, it was something they kept on and on about and if we said "oh, OK, well, we'll think about it" they just kept on at us.
I kind of felt that they were fixating on one thing they thought would solve the problem and we were hoping they'd have alternative ideas because we knew that wouldn't, which made it very difficult to work with them.

Ahh this is really hard, I’m sorry you’re having to go through this!

So the closest experience I’ve had to this is when they wanted my eldest to go into residential care for her MH problems. For me, it was a case of talking to any other professional I could think of to get a balanced opinion, keeping in mind I could be wrong. The feedback I got was that outcomes are better if teens facing her issues were looked after in the community (i.e at home) otherwise they get stuck in a cycle of needing that support and never become independent.

This delayed things, but circumstances escalated and I had to think seriously on if it was the right call. Other professionals started to support it. So I told them to provide further details, and ultimately they then decided that as she’s been doing well at home for so long they couldn’t fund it after all!

I think getting other professionals involved is key. If they agree with you, then you have real back up to disagree with them. If they think the LA might be right then I’d seriously consider it as an option.

I salute your determination to get your children back, and no doubt you have all suffered so much to get to where you are now. Did your ex pay any price for his actions? Any sanctions for him?

Losing the kids doesn't count because the loss of something he cared so little for is no punishment.

Of course the safety of the children must be a priority, but it just seems that the victims of domestic violence get abused by their abuser, then by the state, the law etc., meanwhile the abusers get to just walk away.

@StandByYourTesselators

I salute your determination to get your children back, and no doubt you have all suffered so much to get to where you are now. Did your ex pay any price for his actions? Any sanctions for him?

Losing the kids doesn't count because the loss of something he cared so little for is no punishment.

Of course the safety of the children must be a priority, but it just seems that the victims of domestic violence get abused by their abuser, then by the state, the law etc., meanwhile the abusers get to just walk away.

Thank you!

Argh. Pain point right here.

No, he didn’t. As you say he’s lost access to his kids (though the services went above and beyond to try to make this happen) but I think they are no longer “useful” to him.

He’s now remarried and I understand that she has kids who were under similar circumstances, that he now gets unsupervised contact with (this could be a lie, but services are not joined up between districts at all which is a real problem) which he put forward in court to try to have access to ours along with a successful “abuser course” facilitated by the police. My response was what’s happening in his current situation where he’s been asked to take that?!

I regret not following through with the police reports I made over the years. I could have helped his current wife, but I console myself with the fact there are plenty of them out there I suppose and she needs to do her work to not get taken in.

I think sometimes about following up with the old police reports, they have evidence of my injuries etc. However (and I’m a bit of a dick for feeling this way) I’d rather just focus on my own life at this point.

I’m still too scared to apply for child maintenance. While there are safe ways to do it, it increases the risk of him hunting us down. And he’d probably fiddle the system if he could.

He is very, very broken inside. I still feel for him in some way as he will never be happy without hurting people. I can’t imagine the torment he has inside him, or how it must feel to be empty inside. Considering the level of abuse I experienced, if he hasn’t managed to rein it in he will end up in prison. If I’m approached for a witness statement I will give it my all.

There is an old water bill that was in his name that I hope caught up with him!!

Good I wouldn’t go for child maintenance in your situation either. Best rid of home completely and not have to even write his name down on a form. You’d prob only get about £3 a week anyway

@SwanShaped

Good I wouldn’t go for child maintenance in your situation either. Best rid of home completely and not have to even write his name down on a form. You’d prob only get about £3 a week anyway

Yup! Really frustrating, but I'm proud of being able to support us without his help.

I think I’ve replied to everyone (I’m sorry if I missed anyone!)

I thought I’d add a few questions of my own I thought might come up for completeness.

Have you suffered any trauma due to the separation and how did you recover?

Yup, absolutely. I really had to challenge my resentment that the family members got to experience so many of their years while also being so grateful for what they did for us all. They struggled too sometimes in the early days with overstepping, but they trust me now!

I have (OCD?) thoughts which are totally irrational such as if I don’t give us all matching cutlery and plates (we have a few spares that can be used! And things go missing in bedrooms etc) then the one with the mismatch will be taken away. I use CBT techniques, and my new ADs have really helped with this but it’s a bit weird! I also panic a lot over quite mundane stuff - making sure uniforms are pristine etc. I’m always mindful not to put it on the kids but it’s an ongoing battle for me, though it’s getting better.

Again, counselling and self care have been key. I need to appreciate how much we all went through and they need a healthy mum to be able to take care of them. It’s not a weakness to ask for help, it’s acknowledging I was handed a bad hand of cards and doing what I could to change them.

What was it like when the kids came home? Did you adjust well?

The transition was super slow, which made court really easy. It could have been rushed through but ultimately it worked out well. Everything was well tested and I gained confidence that I could do it all by myself. It was heartbreaking every time they left and I wanted to scream “just give me them already!!” but it set us all up for success.

My (lovely) SW told me she’s heard it takes about 6 months for routines etc to feel normal. That sounds about right to me. We’re now pros at getting ready for school etc (even if we wake up late!) but there was a long time it felt like I was failing. Had she not said that, I might have crashed - but it’s totally normal and we’re all settled now.

OP, so heartbreaking and incredibly brave and inspiring all wrapped up in one. You sound like an incredible mother, you really do.

Thank you so much for sharing. It's really opened my eyes to how it easy to get into an abusive 'hole' that you can't see out of.

Do you have any contact with your Ex's family or have you cut all ties?

I genuinely worry that I might have friends experiencing abuse and I might not read the signs. Are they any clear red flags to look out for in your opinion?