My kids were taken away from me by SS for 5 years - AMA

[InABetterPlaceNow]

I might regret this! NC for obvious reasons.

Just thought it might be helpful for those worried, those going through it, etc.

Op when you are ready to write the book, let me know and I'll help you write the best proposal.

5 years is a hell of a long time. Are you worried that some time in the future your children will develop mental health issues as a result of the time spent away from you and, if so, how will you deal with it?

Taking a pause for tonight as I need to be up tomorrow to get the kids up for school!

I'll reply again tomorrow.

Thank you so much for all your kindness. I was worried I'd be face with a lot of judgement as it's a really shameful thing to admit to. But I was strong enough in my own mind to fight any criticism (as trust me I've battled my own mind enough with that!).

I'm really glad it seems to have sparked interest and hopefully give some insight / advice for those facing similar battles!

I'll be back tomorrow!

OP you sound absolutely amazing. My DHs father has only recently been served with a protection order following decades of abuse on DH’s mother, physically for the earlier years but now more coercive control type behaviour and psychological and emotional abuse. The trigger for the order was that he attempted to lock DHs sister into a room and then later pulled a machete on DH when he confronted him. So now my FIL is mid seventies and he is still causing absolute mayhem in MILs life and obviously his 3 kids lives. You have saved you children from this experience. MIL is still like you described yourself absolutely minimising, denying the abusive behaviour but add to that manipulating the her kids to stay in FILs life when at this stage they just want a relationship with her. You also saved your kids from having to deal with you being like that.

I know you probably carry guilt from what has happened and that is getting in the way of your recognising the extent of your achievements in this, but you are talking about saving teenagers from this abuse, and that wasn’t in any way easy. My MIL is a lovely woman but she is FILs number 1 enabler and getting out of it is just a dream for her. Imagine the fallout for you children if like in my DHs family the abuse went on into the kids forties like it has done for DH’s siblings. You are an absolute hero.

Ah I love this thread, many congratulations to you for turning it around OP. You sound pretty amazing to me.

I had a child removed at birth when I was 18 for very similar reasons, abusive partner with a history of DV against women and SS felt I was minimising the abuse. He'd had a child put up for adoption some years before I knew him, because that child was exposed to DV between parents, but he told me a very different version of course.

At the point they got involved (after I confided in my midwife that there waa financial abuse) he was yet to physically hit me, but given his track record they believed he was already doing so and that I was covering it up.

They came down hard on me and removed baby under the risk of future emotional harm as they weren't taking any chances. I was traumatised and clung to my abuser, he hadn't hit me yet after all so I saw SS as the enemy. I didn't think he ever would.

Of course he then did.

By the time he did hit me, shortly after baby was born, I was too scared to admit it as I didn't trust them. I felt it would be used against me.

The only silver lining was that he didn't get chance to hurt my son. He was safe with foster carers. Unfortunately I had no family who could look after him and was very much on my own. Foster care with a view to him being adopted was their only option in their view.

Whilst proceedings were still on-going I left the abuser and moved into a women's refuge. I started opening up about the abuse (it had become physical and sexual by that point) but it was too late, the case needed to be wrapped up within 5 months and they weren't satisfied that I could keep myself or baby safe.

A judge approved baby to go for adoption which SS had been parallel planning for all along (and I understand why now, but I didn't then) and I never saw him again. Devastating.

It turned my world upside down but I vowed to change my life in the hope that one day he would come looking and I'd be somebody worth knowing. I put in alot of work on myself, moved hundreds of miles away, did courses, read alot and educated myself on domestic abuse and the psychology of abusive men.

Years later I went on to meet my now OH and we conceived a baby, our DC1. I referred myself to SS and asked for a pre birth assessment. I wanted to prove myself and ensure I did everything right that time.

The social worker I got was an angel from heaven I swear. She believed in me and worked with us both to ensure the assessment went well. Both she and her managers were impressed with my level of introspection and understanding of risks posted in the past. A PLO meeting was scheduled with SS legal team as it's standard practice here when a mother has had a child removed at birth previously / adopted.

Two days before I went in to labour I got the call that everybody was satisfied that DC1 wasn't at risk and didn't meet the threshold for removal or even CPP. SS were happy for us to be supported by the health visitor, like normal families are. They saw no need to remain involved whatsoever and told me they'd be closing my case.

SW came to visit after DC1 was born to return a bundle of court documents to me that I gave her during the assessment. She bought DC1 a teddy bear and told me how our case had really moved her / she was proud of how far I'd come.

I cried when she left as I didn't want to see the back of her ha ha.

Fast forward to now we have two beautiful children and are expecting our third in 4 weeks time.

Like yours OP, the social worker who helped me so much went on to be promoted. She's a manager now and I've never met a SW more deserving of the role than her.

Not a day goes by that I don't think about my birth son and every year when I send a letterbox update I ache to see him. Sadly adoption is for life and there's just nothing I can do until he chooses to come looking. I often get consumed with feelings of injustice, IE "he should be here with me, I have proven myself, I can safeguard him now" but at other times I'm at peace because he's settled and his adoptive parents have given him such a wonderful life.

Still, I often wonder how things could have panned out differently if I had support all of those years ago, family who could have stepped in whilst I made the right changes.

It's so heartening to read from somebody who managed to get their children back, it's incredibly rare and you should be very proud ❤❤

@InABetterPlaceNow

Taking a pause for tonight as I need to be up tomorrow to get the kids up for school!

I'll reply again tomorrow.

Thank you so much for all your kindness. I was worried I'd be face with a lot of judgement as it's a really shameful thing to admit to. But I was strong enough in my own mind to fight any criticism (as trust me I've battled my own mind enough with that!).

I'm really glad it seems to have sparked interest and hopefully give some insight / advice for those facing similar battles!

I'll be back tomorrow!

You sound great to me.

• FAB course (found online)
• Counsellor for sexual abuse (search online, free services nationwide) - 6 months
• Reading everything I could online

Can you give details of all of these, how to access, contact details?

I have asked MNHQ to put this thread in Classics or to archive it somehow for ease of reference.

Well done on turning it all around

I’m on the flip side of this. I have an SGO for my 2 granddaughters

Their parents are lovely, truthfully, but are still working toward being able to understand their parts in what has happened to them.

I vowed to change my life in the hope that one day he would come looking and I'd be somebody worth knowing.

@Mumwind, you were always 'someone worth knowing'.

You had the great misfortune to fall into the gravitational pull of someone evil, who probably specifically targeted you and all his other victims.

This is an amazing thread. Gives such hope to those in a similar situation. Well done, OP, you’ve done an incredible job. As others have said, it’s so good to hear of working with SS, and to hear them spoken about so warmly.

I don't remember reading every question and every answer on a thread but I have. You are amazing and your insights are gold (e.g our flippant LTB when we haven't been 'there'). I also appreciate you showcasing good social workers. They are often vilified but their work is so so important. They need good training, support, a system that backs them etc. I come from a country without (real) social worker support and really really wish we had that. So much abuse and so generational pain and patterns.
I wish you the very best and hope your case will be written up and publicised as best practice. What an amazing mum you are! What an amazing human your sw is!

@NOTANUM

Were there red flags that your exDP would abuse you before the children came along?

(I ask because there often seems to be hints that get ignored here on MN but looking back the behaviour waa always there).

Just picking back up posting, but reading but I realised my initial reply to this was me not reading the question properly, sorry!

Yes, there were red flags right from the start. He bad mouthed all his exes, love bombed me, acted like a knight in shining armour, very quickly gave up his flat and moved in with me. All very easily recognised signs once you have a good understanding of the cycle of abuse.

We fell pregnant very quickly (in hindsight I think it was planned on his part) so the "before kids" wasn't very long! We'd been together about a year when my first was born.

@San141

I've had 3 un supported reports to social services. The first one when the 2 ladies came round they lied, so did the school! After I officially complained they left it.. then we had it again..and again!! How do you cope with lies? I wrote to everyone.. but heard nothing back xx

The way I had to learn to deal with it is accept that they were just working with the information they had, and to know in myself what was the truth (examining it carefully to make sure I wasn't missing a genuine concern, even if it had been blown out of proportion).

If I knew something was totally unfounded, then it was an easy thing to "prove a change" around going forward.

Unfortunately, those things will stay recorded and will be used if they get involved again going forward (even with complaints etc). That can feel really unfair, but it's important to keep focused on proving you have your kids at the forefront of your mind and are happy to work with the services in any way needed to prove that.

@RickySpanishhh

Do your children have behaviour problems? Or other signs of trauma?

My eldest was the most deeply affected. She lived through the abuse for far longer, and knew what was happening more when we were separated.

6 months after returning home we faced a year long battle with her MH (CAMHS believe it was because she was finally in a "safe" space where she could start to feel) which got really serious. I could start a whole other thread on that. She has a diagnosed personal disorder along with complex trauma.

She's doing much better now, managed to get into college and passed her first year, but it's still touch and go.

My middle DD started struggling too earlier this year, in part from experiencing what happened for my eldest - she started mirroring some of the things she did (self harm etc). Thankfully I noticed really quickly and we had some good talks, and things seem to have been nipped in the bud, but I'm keeping a close eye on things and notified the school so they can too. If she starts to struggle again I'll be talking to the GP to get her referred as needed.

My youngest struggled massively with anger outbursts when my eldest was struggling, and separation anxiety when she first returned. Play therapy through the school really helped with that, and it's slowly got better over time with lots of talks about feelings and how to cope with them in better ways.

@Maybeoneday20

As a social worker who has helped and supported many families through the years I want to say that you are amazing. You have been on a journey but you have fought for your children and for yourself and have come out the other side. What a courageous and strong person you are. I am so pleased your children are back where they should be and I am so glad you have had a good social worker to get you through this. All the best to you and your family.

P.s. Thank you for posting something positive about social work, doesn't often happen! xx

Thank you!

You have a really hard, but invaluable job. It's easy to see you as "the enemy" and it really can feel like that at times as a parent with LA involvement, but the support you can give can also really help to turn kids lives around - thank you for everything you do!

[quote San141]@Maybeoneday20 sorry! After my son (16) attacked me the social services were amazing! It's unfortunate that sometimes..in life people ( humans!) get it wrong..they also get it right xx[/quote]
Absolutely agree!

@Lemonsandlemonade

Well done OP takes an awful lot to change your stars.

Thank you!

We have had SW involvement and I agree they are a hugely mixed bag (both DCs adopted, and DS has SEN so there have been quite a few around, but also I'm thinking of teacher/other professional comments).

When you say that you try and not let SW comments affect you/let them roll off you, how do you deal with that if there's a really unhelpful suggestion/comment that they keep harking back to?
We had a long period when professionals kept suggesting our DS had a learning disability and all his problems would be solved by going to the local MLD school. He's now 2 years on from that time and during lockdown he did a "missing" year of Maths in 3 months - but this wasn't a one off suggestion, it was something they kept on and on about and if we said "oh, OK, well, we'll think about it" they just kept on at us.
I kind of felt that they were fixating on one thing they thought would solve the problem and we were hoping they'd have alternative ideas because we knew that wouldn't, which made it very difficult to work with them.

@SwanShaped

Hi betterplace. I used to work in refuges. Since having my own kids, one thing I can’t get my head around is why women/you didn’t put your kids first. I find it really hard to reconcile and is one of the reasons I didn’t go back to that line of work after kids. Could you explain your thinking at the point of SS saying they would take your kids away and you still didn’t comply? And kept your kids at risk. Also, did you think about the impact of your situation on the kids. I genuinely mean this as a question behind your thought processes and I am not trying to be horrible.

It's an absolutely fair question, and might be tricky to answer but I will do my best! I'm also mindful that there are lots of different situations, so I can only speak my own truth.

My kids were genuinely at the centre of every decision I was making, but it probably didn’t look like it on the surface. I’ll answer your sub question at the same time, and it might be a bit disjointed but lots of things were playing into a bigger picture.

My dad took his own life when I was 3, and my Mum had a serious health condition that was poorly managed which make her quite nasty but was explained / attributed to the illness. She also overshared a lot of her mental health issues with me and I took on a parent role from a young age. I think this meant that I couldn’t recognise that it wasn’t my job to “parent” another adult.

I wanted my kids to have a dad, and I thought I could help “fix” my ex. The kids loved him. He would threaten to kill himself if he lost us. I couldn’t bear the thought of being the cause of someone’s suicide (Side note, I’ve worked on all these things, and the following and think very differently about them all now!). He said that if I left he would make sure social services knew what an awful mother I was and I would never see them again. When I did all the things he wanted me to, he was kind and loving. This often let to me acting “nice” to him while secretly trying to plan an escape in my head. At the points that I tried to leave the most serious abuse happened, and I thought he was going to kill me. He’d call the police if I left the flat to get space and try to think of where I could go, telling them he was scared for my safety (as I’d had suicide attempts in my teens).

Things happened very quickly when social services were involved that last time. I signed a section 47 for the girls to stay with family, I was told for 2 weeks. I thought this was for the best and was in complete denial that he had actually hurt one of our kids. I thought it would all be found out not to be true, it couldn’t possibly be, and then we’d be left alone and I could do a slower, long term plan, save some money up, leave with his agreement so he wouldn’t hurt me - I know it sounds messed up! I hate admitting it. I thought it was best for the kids not to be there so that if it WAS true, I could figure out how to get him to agree to stay away so he wouldn’t kill us. I didn’t have any faith that the police could keep us safe. I didn’t have any faith that I could keep us safe.

Those 2 weeks turned into court proceedings, and eventually turned into the 5 years. It was deemed that the likelihood was I’d return to him, and that I’d have too much trauma myself to be able to be emotionally capable for my girls. I had left but the risk was too high, and the timescales for court meant it couldn’t show enough progress to allow them to agree a return at that point.

Thankfully I was able to prove it all over the course of years, reporting anything involving ex to the LA and police, having great contact with the kids, not getting into another abusive relationship, attending therapy, etc etc.

There’s probably a lot I’ve missed, but hopefully it gives some sort of insight. I was doing the best I could with the tools I had at the time, based on my life experience to that point. There was very little of “me” at that point, his voice made up the vast majority of my thoughts. It’s a truly horrible thing that abusers can do to people.

The last post was quite draining to write and think about so I'm going to take a bit of a break and some self care!

I'll be back a bit later!

Thank you for taking the time to explain your thought process and I'm so sorry it took you back to a bad place. I admit, I struggle to know how best to connect with and help women who can't seem to leave the abuser even when it potentially means losing their kids (or dying), and it can seem irrational and frustrating to those on the outside who want to see you safe and away from the abuser.

I second those who strongly recommend you write a book. I think you have so much to offer women who are in this situation, more so than any of us who never have been. I have no doubt that many people on here would help you get it written and published, as a passion project and a privilege to be involved with.

Take care

Thank you so much for answering that OP! I can imagine it must be extremely painful to think about it all. It sounds like you’ve had a lot of tricky things happen in your life prior to this too. I think you’ve explained so well why it is harder to leave than people expect. It sounds like your fear of the consequences of leaving, both to you and him, were greater than your fear of staying. Which to be fair, leaving is a very risky stage and the police don’t always manage to keep women safe.

But it also sounds like you’ve done a load of work on your situation and have a much better life going forwards.

@BuffySummersReportingforSanity

Thank you for taking the time to explain your thought process and I'm so sorry it took you back to a bad place. I admit, I struggle to know how best to connect with and help women who can't seem to leave the abuser even when it potentially means losing their kids (or dying), and it can seem irrational and frustrating to those on the outside who want to see you safe and away from the abuser.

I second those who strongly recommend you write a book. I think you have so much to offer women who are in this situation, more so than any of us who never have been. I have no doubt that many people on here would help you get it written and published, as a passion project and a privilege to be involved with.

Take care

You're welcome! While hard to "go back there", it's also cathartic and really shows me myself how hard I worked on some really skewed thinking patterns.

My woman's aid worker had been in an abusive relationship themselves, which really helped her work with me. I can absolutely get how hard it would be for someone who hasn't been in it to understand.

Thank you for the supporting the idea of me writing a book! I feel like it's something that makes sense for me to do (I've always wanted to publish something!). I need to think about safety around it I think - while my kids are still kids, I need to continue to do everything I can to make sure we stay off his radar. The same with any public speaking. I've thought, perhaps, of making a website at some point (my degree was in software engineering!) which would allow me to be somewhat anonymous.

I'm really glad people feel like me sharing my experience might help someone.

@SwanShaped

Thank you so much for answering that OP! I can imagine it must be extremely painful to think about it all. It sounds like you’ve had a lot of tricky things happen in your life prior to this too. I think you’ve explained so well why it is harder to leave than people expect. It sounds like your fear of the consequences of leaving, both to you and him, were greater than your fear of staying. Which to be fair, leaving is a very risky stage and the police don’t always manage to keep women safe.

But it also sounds like you’ve done a load of work on your situation and have a much better life going forwards.

You're welcome!

Yes, I can really see how my prior life experiences "set me up" to fall into an abusive relationship. I'm so, so thankful I managed to escape the cycle. Things could have worked out very differently.

That's exactly it - staying was the "less bad" option in my mind. I didn't even cover all the very practical reasons for not leaving! I had been put on all the main bills (and related debts). He'd taken out payday loans in my name. He had the house key, and my bank card to the joint account. (so, so very clear abuse tactics but it happened gradually). He was the stay at home parent and I worked full time, how would I cover childcare while penniless and if I didn't pay the debts we'd lose our home as were already on notice, etc etc.

It's taken me years to pay off debts, repair my credit history and be comfortable(ish)!

When I'm giving advice to woman in my situation I'm always very careful to advise woman's aid rather than just LTB. I'm very lucky to be alive after previous attempts of leaving, and professional support is 100% needed to do it as safely as possible.

Thank you for your kind words! We are infinitely better now.

@GreenTea77

This is lovely, well done to you, it wasn’t the social worker.. it was you that got you where you are. Good social workers are worth their weight in gold, I may be biased 🤣 glad to hear of your positive experience x

Aww thank you! Yup, I absolutely know I had a massive part in things. But she particularly was invaluable as a source of support. Other workers that have come and gone have been varying levels of helpful, but she was one in a million!