I am the mother of a trans child ...AMA

[DoryNow]

But no bun fights please, I am not a trans activist.

I'm not new. I've been on Mumsnet for 11 years, feel free to test me

I'm also not aggressive

Agree with Prawn’s and Lemon’s posts, very articulately put.

But I would not be able to endorse medical transition.

So...the million $ question is: Given that is your stance, would you cut off contact with your child if they medically transitioned? How would you be able to accept, what for you, is not acceptable?

I still have a lot of influence over them, probably because I have done everything in my power to keep channels open. If your DC is determined to take permanent changes to their perfect healthy body at 18 perhaps their relationship to themself is not of the best
What do you mean by that?

I would get them to look at the extensive research which demonstrates that the human brain doesn't mature until 25. And then do my level best to dissuade my child from doing anything irreversible to their body.

This recently published peer reviewed paper on ROGD makes interesting reading journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330

Mozzie why assume estrangement? If my child insisted on going down this route I would tell them that I love and respect them, that I will always be there for them but that I can’t condone medical transition at such a young age (before at least 25). If they then chose to cut themselves off that would suggest that they really weren’t mature enough to be making such a decision. Flouncers rarely are mature.

Okay...so your child undergoes transition tam yours or prawn's, and wants you to call them by their new name, pronouns and call them/accept them as your new son/daughter. They are not cutting you off but they would expect the above as a sign that you do love them and respect their life choices, even if you do not agree with them.
How do you then sustain a relationship?

I would continue to love and see them. What else would anyone expect? I would grieve and fear for them and brace myself for the anguish I fear would be in store for them as they matured. They would be likely to need a great deal of extra support in later years.

Yes, exactly this. I would know that they were not what they believed they were but I would keep that in my heart.

Do you think that every parent who has a different ideology from their child ends up estranged? I mean, she might become a Tory and I’d still love her!

I wouldn't be willing to pretend that they were a son/daughter all along. I think that's cruel to the parents who raised you. The new name and pronoun I could put up with.

If your DC is determined to take permanent changes to their perfect healthy body at 18 perhaps their relationship to themself is not of the best.

You asked what I mean by this, MozzieMagnet. I'd have thought it was pretty obvious. No one prepared to make permanent life changing surgical and medical changes to their body at 18 has an even faintly healthy relationship with their body. Anyone with body dysmorphia is suffering from very significant MH issues.

It's not what anyone can describe as healthy to sterilize yourself before you're out of your teens. As for losing sexual function, including the capacity to orgasm? Do you think that's OK? Because I don't.

What else would anyone expect?
As a mum, I would expect what you have both said above.

Do you think that every parent who has a different ideology from their child ends up estranged?
Some do, obviously not all, but when it's a deal-breaker it can lead to estrangement eg marrying someone outside of your religion

So the only way you are different from the OP is that she would/did actively support her child through their transition rather than offering support after the fact.

I would not want to be in the OP's shoes, ever. But what some might think of as endorsement or enabling, others might view as unconditional love.

I've not at any point suggested that OP doesn't love her DC. I hope she doesn't come to regret her choices, but the same is true for all of us.

And here you are for the purposes of medical historians a blow by blow account of the arguments given by parents who wanted to reject their children’s choice to be homosexual.

Start off by claiming it is medically impossible for anyone to be sexually attracted to someone’s of the other sex.

Add a pinch of undocumented mental illness to explain the perverted thoughts.

Fear for the child’s wellbeing as rash early decisions which will be regretted later plunge them into social pariah status.

Weep and guilt trip the child into renouncing their identity to please you.

Evening all- my haven't we all been chatty this afternoon, good to see

I'll have a quick catch up.

ArcheryAnnie

You have behaved like you are the object of terrible attacks from gender-crit feminists here

Yes I did feel attacked, everyone has their own level of what is acceptable or not, the animosity and vitriol seen towards me for my childs situation has been sustained, unrelated to what you actually are saying. I am free to reject your theories, I do not have to accept the way in which they are delivered, just not my style shrug

...and yet you minimise and shrug off the attacks from TRAS, and claim a false equivalence, like the two sides are as bad as each other.

Where have I minimised these awful attacks? I believe I have said maybe 3 or 4 times I agree they are violent dreadful attacks. I do not condone violence in any shape or form, physical or mental on or offline. That goes for any group or individual, it is not a pissing up the wall contest as to who is more in danger or under threat, its all unacceptable IMHO, some of the online and media stuff against children is truly dreadful as well.

However I do not accept they represent the vast majority of trans (or gender crit) people in the community.

This is going to affect your child, and I do really think you need to grasp that. I'm also pretty astonished that your stance seems to be just to stand on the sidelines saying "well, they've helped me", when you are told by LBGT+ people that an organisation is homophobic

oooh thanks AA, gosh had never thought of that angle that my child might be affected.....

I do wish you would stop with the continued (false) presumption that just because I have not disclosed my full background and personal experience of a lot of matters concerning the LGBT+ community that I am ignorant of them. I repeat again, for privacy for both myself and my child I have not shared absolutely all identifying details or knowledge.

You can tell me till you're blue in the face that xyz is true but I don't have to accept it is true if that is not my experience. Who made you and other Gender Crit posters the fount of all knowledge?

You have valid points, as I believe I have also said before, but you really need to understand that repeatedly shouting them as the ultimate truth is not going to make it right if I want to disagree.

The comparison you attempt to draw is wildly off beam, Booboostwo, particularly in light of the ugly homophobia (specifically lesbophobia) of TRA ideology.

I could go through your assertions point by point, but I'll leave that to anyone still reading.

I don't understand why the T got tacked on to the LGB. They have little in common, indeed their interests conflict directly at times.

After all, LGB people don't need heavy duty drugs and surgery to be their natural authentic selves, nor does a change of mind carry any penalty. Plus the explosion in trans identities mirrors medical advances and the internet, whereas homosexuality has been around since human beings evolved, and occurs among many other species.

Prawn

Medical transition for both sexes, but particularly for girls, is not a harmless or benign process. It creates permanent physical changes, including a very much higher chance of certain cancers. It sterilizes very young people and destroys or limits sexual function. These are massive lifelong burdens for a young person, burdens they may not even quantify for years

And you have research evidence to back up these claims of course?

I'm a little less verbose on the subject these days than I used to be so I won't join the fray, but were I to OP I assure you I would very much be in the corner or a parent doing the best they could with information available to them, and their child pursuing a life which would allow them to live comfortably with themself.

I'm sorry you've been beset by the usual suspects, although it would seem you've met them before... Just one last thing:

Bloody love you OP! Bang up job navigating such an unenviably difficult circumstance and coming out the other side with a happy son and a happy relationship with them. And double bang up job to your son for achieving the same.

orchid

Yes that link makes interesting reading, a survey by that well know medical reseach tool, survey monkey. It was based on 250 US schoolchildren, which given the size of the US population is hardly statistically representative.

The phrase ROGD has been coined by Transgender Trend and their US counterparts, and the "evidence" comes from parents who are panicking (understandably) about the apparent rash of (mostly) girls coming out or expressing confusion.

This has a more realistic take on the phenomina.
theconversation.com/why-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria-is-bad-science-92742

The study I linked to shows that trans identifying young people are overwhelmingly comprised girls who first came out at 15-16, had never previously shown any signs of dysphoria, who had previously shown signs of being same sex attracted and who had all experiences some form of mental distress before coming out as trans. Which is exactly what you've said about your child on this thread,

Why is that so upsetting to you?

Girls presenting to the Tavi have gone up 400% in the last few years. That's no one's interpretation-it's a fact. If you don't think there's a huge element of social contagion in there I wonder what you feel accounts for the explosion of teenage girls suddenly deciding they were 'born in the wrong body'? You said yourself that your son saw youtube videos which confirmed his identity and then bristled when someone suggested he was influenced by them.

Yes, of course. I don't make this stuff up. Only wish it was all in my imagination.

Here's a FWR (aka Feminism Chat) thread on suicide claims about trans children, including some useful links:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3285329-Those-suicide-statistics

Another FWR thread about puberty blockers. Quite a short thread with useful links:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1194962-Children-of-12-to-be-allowed-gender-drugs-to-prepare-for-sex-change

More extensive and scientific evidence concerning puberty blockers from a parenting support site.

Data about additional cancer risks for transmen.

And further cancer information concerning transmen here.

You already have two links concerning Lupron. Here's another about the very similar drug more commonly used in the NHS.

Regarding the effects on IQ: They've done at least 2 studies on girls (not transgender) who were given puberty blockers for a short period as they were going through early puberty. On average their IQ went down 8 points (7 points in the other study) in the year or so they took the blockers, in the most recent study 2 out of 15 who were given the drugs ended up being held back a year at school.

7-8 IQ points aren't that much if your IQ is starting out fairly high but losing that amount (or more) makes a lot of difference if your starting IQ is low and as far as I can see there aren't studies on how this effects children who are suppressed for their whole puberty and beyond.

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2017.00044/full#B8

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11683207

I'm trying to say this without upsetting anyone or being condescending. I apologise if it comes across that way to anyone.

There are two things happening simultaneously. One is being done by the TRAs and dragging people into it. It's big, it's in the open and it's pretty near all consuming. It's something we need to stand up against.

The other is small and private. It's happening to people like the OP and her family, both the trans person and their relatives. Whatever happens to those individuals they will be going through pain. Some will end up trans, some won't. In the most part they are victims of the TRAs, along with other women and children. They are being used as evidence of all trans being innocent, used as a shield for AGP. Some will be public and some won't, some will enjoy the limelight and some will want no one knowing.

We may disagree over things like access to single sex provisions but the people being hurt will come from both sides of the debate. We need to remember that these are real people who are trying to do what's best for their situation, they are not trying to decide rights and wrongs for the world. Obviously they will feel strongly about decisions they make, it's going to personal to them.

The rather garbled point I'm trying to make is that a little kindness wouldn't hurt. This isn't about female conditioning - it's about recognising the fact that this is someone who has been through something hard and done her best. That a person she loves hurts deeply and that while the decisions made may not be what you would decide they are the best choice made using the best information available at the time.

Thete are debates to be had. Big ones. There are things happening that I hate. But we need to remember that the OP is not responsible for that.

orchid The study showed girls who had deicide to rebel against their parents when they had decided they were trans as there was a lot of talk about it. If the parents had wanted to support their daughters & got some independant counselling to hep them work through the gender confusion quite common in teens, as suggested in the link I posted then things might be different.

Not upset about it at all, just hate so called research being quoted as medical fact& nothing at all like my sons experience actually!

I don't dispute the rise in girls identifying as trans, but I see it as a period in their lives when they are hugely confused about their gender sexuality and many other things, a mass of hormones. It used to be they were gay, now some say they are trans. They all need support regardless of those who have true issues or those who are just questioning or rebelling.

Early counselling from a source other than their parents ( lets face it we know nothing do we at that age to them!! ) would I am sure help reduce the concerns of all parties and ensure the ones who ARE truly dysphoric to progresss to the individual support they need like the Tavi if appropriate.

My son did not have his identity confirmed on you tube, or was he influenced by them, what I actually said was he had his light bulb moment when stumbling across someone talking about their feelings which mirrored his own. He then started talking to me.

Dory you are one bloody amazing mum😃 if only all parents were like you. I fully believe we can be born into the wrong body. However I think the slow process of transitioning makes it more certain that the young people who truly feel that they are in the wrong body are committed and absolutely sure it's the right thing for them. I would have been taken as "trans " as a teenager but I am now very comfortable with who I am. My only comment is that we are too ready to accept teenagers as trans when they are really just experimenting. This is clearly not the case in your family and you have given unfailing support to your son. Hats off to you . You have my utmost admiration.