I am the mother of a trans child ...AMA

[DoryNow]

But no bun fights please, I am not a trans activist.

[DoryNow]

THJ
Thank you. It is a steep learning curve and as you can see from this thread, many opposing views on the best way forward.

Each family has to decide for themselves I feel. The main thing is (IMHO) is to make your child feel they are listened to and their worries acknowledged, even if you don't agree with a lot of what they are saying.

I didn'r really have to bite my toungue, we talked many many hours about it all. So he had my full support as it was the right thing for him.

[ThanksHunkyJesus]

Thank you for answering

You are trying to stay calm & focused on the facts & practicalities but not only have YOU got all sorts of thoughts & emotions whirling around your head, you are trying to support a child who is too

I guess the difficulty is that you don't really have any control over it either. Whether you agree with what your child is doing or not, as a mother you kind of have to support them and bite your tongue. Applies to all sorts of situations but this must have been harder than most parents go through. I hope you've managed to find some peace.

[DoryNow]

Cocolepew No worries easily done the thread is moving so fast

RiverTam Your heartfelt post about infertility resonated with me so deeply. Absolutely all the thoughts & fears I went through during this process, and still the thing that haunts me for the future- that he will blame me later for not stopping him.

littledinaco no I get where you are coming from thanks for the thoughful post.

ThanksHunkyJesus (love that NN )
The path we took was with a relatively new gender clinic then and they were excellent with professorial levels of care so I did feel we were given all the options/info at that stage.

I don't know if the current economic climate for the NHS as a whole has changed that level of care there it certainly has at other clinics.

I have said upthread I did struggle with the lack of specialist counselling and support. GP's then were woefully under-equipped even if sympathetic, and few knew how to proceed. I had to do my own research on how to get referred. We all know how underfunded child mental health services are across the board and that has only got worse since we came out the other side. I would like to see that massively improved.

What do I think about the process? The most horrendous thing I have have had to experience in my whole life & I have had some pretty shitty experiences
. WIth hindsight we can all have 20/20 vision & you can only truly understand the gutwrenching dilemma when you go through it.

I say that not as a dramatic gesture, or to deny anyones empathy of the situation but its just the most emotionally challenging period of time. You are trying to stay calm & focused on the facts & practicalities but not only have YOU got all sorts of thoughts & emotions whirling around your head, you are trying to support a child who is too.

It also challenges all your preconceptions about what you feel about trans kids & adults. I have always thought that it must be a very hard thing to do & how brave it was to go through it & respected their choices without really understanding much about it all.

But when it was my child I just had this overwhelming urge to protect them & ignore it as it frightened me so much and I hated the idea of anything or anyone changing my perfect childs body.

Sorry - another waffle but you did ask THJ

[ThanksHunkyJesus]

I would imagine some parents like the op felt they had no choice but to get 100% on board with what their child wants to do because of what they fear might happen if they don't whole heartedly support medical transition.

Id be interested to know what the op really thinks about the whole process and whether she thinks it might have been better managed differently by her/her child/the nhs/ charities she's used. Sorry if you've already answered that. It's a long thread.

[busyboysmum]

Paper here on rapid onset gender dysphoria for the lurkers who may be worried about their own child:

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330

Rapid-onset gender dysphoria (ROGD) describes a phenomenon where the development of gender dysphoria is observed to begin suddenly during or after puberty in an adolescent or young adult who would not have met criteria for gender dysphoria in childhood. ROGD appears to represent an entity that is distinct from the gender dysphoria observed in individuals who have previously been described as transgender. The worsening of mental well-being and parent-child relationships and behaviors that isolate AYAs from their parents, families, non-transgender friends and mainstream sources of information are particularly concerning. More research is needed to better understand this phenomenon, its implications and scope.

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

Cocolepew, not only are they sterile but if they're been on puberty blockers they won't even have any eggs or sperm to store because they've never reached sexual maturity. The same applies to sexual function.and orgasm. And it's not just sexual maturity. Puberty blockers prevent brain development, a key part of maturation.

No one knows to what extent this is reversible and, although advocates say you're simply buying time, children started on puberty blockers nearly all progress to cross sex hormones.

DoryNow, providing links to a range of factual evidence and debate is the exact opposite to gaslighting. It's a daft accusation to make against me. You may not like the material I draw to people's attention but I'm sure you can't be suggesting that I'm deliberately trying to mislead you or anyone else. Because that's what gaslighting is.

[ArcheryAnnie]

You know what this smacks of? Gaslighting.

I don't think you know what gaslighting means. I think you are just throwing random personal attacks out, now. (See also "perverse".) I really don't think this is very helpful.

[littledinaco]

I second what RiverTam says (excellent post btw) about its not you and not your child. Non of my comments are implying it’s in any way your fault OP or anything you could have done differently, sorry if that wasn’t clear. My frustration is with the NHS for allowing this as an available option to children.

[littledinaco]

I understand it’s more than clothes but other than presenting (hair,clothes,shoes,make up,etc) a certain way and having certain interests (either stereotypically girl or boy interests) it does come down to ‘feeling like a man/woman’.

In terms of 18 year olds knowing their minds on this, I’m sure most 18 year olds would say they know their minds on most things! Many 18 year olds swear blind they never want kids, want a certain career, will do x,y.z for the rest of their lives, would never, ever do x,y.z etc etc. 18 year olds are also (generally speaking) not the best at being able to wait - they want everything now! and probably don’t have the best insight into the future.

I know if I had to live my life now based on the decisions I made at 18 I don’t think it would be the best. I’m guessing most people would be the same as that’s the nature of 18 year olds!
Luckily most of the decisions we make at 18 aren’t completely life changing and potentially extremely harmful.

Yes, you have to take on a case by case basis but this won’t stop lots of these children and young adults having their fertility taken away and other complications when they aren’t in the best place or at the best period of their lives to make such completely life altering decisions.
Even if they remain trans forever and remain happy not having the opportunity to have biological children, the affects of the medication is still potentially horrific.
As a parent of an 18 year old who wants to go ahead there is literally nothing you can do but I do feel so many of these children and young adults are being massively let down by the system. A lot of trans children/teens are led to believe they can actually change sex which is so unfair on them.

As for time to change their minds along the way, I’m not sure this is the best way to look at it as it’s not actually ‘changing your mind’. If you feel desperately unhappy with being a boy/girl and long to be the opposite sex more than anything, it’s not about ‘changing your mind’. A better approach may be to say that feeling like this is common/normal, yes it’s utterly horrendous and no, you probably won’t decide to ‘change your mind’ but there is a good chance (this is where statistics should be helpful) that you will get to say, 25 (again would need statistics for age,etc) and feel content as a man/woman.

‘Lots of time to change your mind’ is actually a false safety net as it gives the impression that trans kids going through this did have plenty of time to change their minds and the fact they didn’t must mean this decision is right for them.

[SnuggyBuggy]

It's interesting to contrast the willingness to give sterilising hormones to 18 year olds to the reluctance to do a tubal ligation on say a 30 year old mum of two who doesn't want more children.

[RiverTam]

I know you know this, and I know your child knows this but I and many others have huge reservations about how much an inexperienced 18 yo can fully understand what sterility means. Though my anger is reserved for the NHS for providing this. Christ, they would not give an18yo adamant she didn’t want children a hysterectomy. But insist you hate your body to that extent and instead of treat the mind that’s creating these dreadful thoughts and suffering, the body is surgically altered and sterilised.

It’s not you and it’s not your child. But I find that utterly abhorrent in every regard. I sincerely hope that your child isn’t one of the ones ( and I have no doubt there will be many in the years to come) who gets to his 30s and realises the full impact of the decisions that were acted on when he was 18. A quick browse on MN reveals how dreadful, life-consumingly awful infertility is.

I really do hope the NHS has deep pockets, either to reverse the damage done or to deal with the lawsuits to come.

Again, it’s not you and it’s not your child. But it makes me so very angry. Jesus Christ, I struggled for years to have DD, not infertitly, something else, but if I realised that that suffering had been caused by an HCP, based on my decisions as a teen, who’s first rule is surely ‘do no harm’ I don’t know how I would feel, 20 billion times worse, I should think, I would be consumed by anger, with myself, with them, with everything.

I know and understand your desire for your child to be happy now and let the future sort itself out. But that’s a hell of a future to condemn a child to.

[Cocolepew]

Apologies I mis-read something.

[DoryNow]

Cocolepew ....and you think I don't know this?

littledinaco It's MUCH more than just the clothes the children are comfortable in. Some DO present as very feminine because that's what they feel comfortable in but some don't just as any child has their own style.
So basically I'm sorry I have no answer there but yes it would be interesting to have an input on that one

As to the other question, I 'll reiterate my thoughts, that they have plenty of time to change their minds along the way, and 18 year olds DO know their own minds when it comes to this although I accept the concept of the brain not develping fully until after 20 must bother a lot of people.

You just have to take it on a case by case basis.

[littledinaco]

I think that's underestimating the skills of the assessing team. They get all shapes & sizes & variations comng through the doors just as with adults. And would it not be the very gender stereotyping we all hate if they did so?
But I think a lot of the trans is gender stereotyping. All the stories I have heard are along the lines of ‘oh we always knew as Ben played with Barbie dolls from very young and loved dressing as a princess’. Yes, I’m simplifying but you get the point.

Maybe I’m completely wrong but you don’t come across trans boys (so born a girl) who have long hair, wear make up, present very ‘girly’ etc who ‘feel like a boy’ or trans girls (born a boy) who wear boys clothing, short hair, into ‘boys’ hobbies who say they ‘feel like a girl’.
It’s all very stereotypical.

So I’m genuinely wondering what would happen if an adult or child presented for phyche assessments dressed and looking like the sex they were born as whether they would be offered treatment as easily as someone else (adult or child) who dressed and presented as the opposite sex.
Even if both were equally insistent they were ‘in the wrong body’ and ‘felt like the opposite sex’.
I’ve a feeling that the outcomes in relation to being offered hormones would be very different but I’m happy to be corrected and would be interested in knowing more about this if anyone knows?

But pysches are not daft they know when someone is playing the part or genuinely trans. it would be very difficult for a child to keep up a pretense for years I would think.
I don’t think most/if any children who go to pysche assessments are ‘playing a part’ though. I think that they all (or nearly all) genuinely believe they are ‘trapped in the wrong body’. The problem is simply not knowing who will grow out of it after (often after many, many years) and who won’t bevore putting (often children) on life changing medication with potential horrific side effects.

Also, are they told at these assessments that they can take hormones, have surgery, dress in whatever way they want but unfortunately no matter how badly they want to they can’t change sex? They can however, live happily as a trans man/woman. A trans woman who posts on here says that being told she couldn’t chance sex was really important to her and if she would have been led to believe otherwise she would have struggled going through the trans process when she discovered this wasn’t true. I’m just concerned that children, teens (and adults) aren’t actually told this by the professionals.

[Cocolepew]

But children are being sterilised by taking hormones. Your son will never be able to have a child because of the drugs they take.

[DoryNow]

POSTED UPTHREAD BY MNHQ FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FORGOTTEN

"Thanks, OP, for your openness, and for what is a really interesting thread.

We just really wanted to issue our usual reminder that Mumsnet is all about making parents' lives easier and to continue to keep that in mind when asking the OP questions or posting on the thread."

[DoryNow]

You know what this smacks of? Gaslighting.

Posters poke & prod and question every turn of phrase and utterance and then say
" oh no dear calm down we aren't being critical, we are just trying to help by pointing out the truth and make sure you really know what going on as you clearly are not bright enough to understand it"

[DoryNow]

There are frequently threads on other contentious issues , it is quite possible to look into them, think "oh dear" if its upsetting to you and leave them to it.

You do not need to fight every bloody thread every time.

[DoryNow]

Prawn Oh I'm not making personal attacks any more than you are, you don't like it when I bite back & reflect your own words back to you .

I could get a lot more personal but as you say not in the spirit.

I did not start this thread as a contentious issuse but as a personal reflection on a trans mums journey.

You have jumped all over it with your campaign /agenda nd I am merely attempting to fight my corner in my own way.

[DoryNow]

That court brief is from a trans boy called Gavin Grimm who had been using the boys loos quite happily at his US school after coming out & notifying them ,until some parent had a hissy fit & (initially) succesfully sued the state . But it went all the way to the Supreme Court in a test case with ACLU

The lengths to which the prosecution went to defend their case was amazing, and you are going to quote their "findings " as evidence when its obvious they would call on every spurious report they could to make their point.

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

DoryNow another emotional post in which you make personal attacks. Please don't do this. It's against the spirit, as they say.

If you can't cope with opposing views perhaps don't start threads on highly contentious topics.

[DoryNow]

littledinaco

Also, does OP or anyone else know if when the trans person is being assessed by psychologists, clinicians, etc they take into account the way their person dresses, has their hair and what their hobbies/interests are? I’m just wondering if a boy who goes in wearing make up, long hair and a dress and saying they enjoy painting nails and playing netball is more likely to be approved for treatment than a boy who goes in wearing jeans, has short hair and enjoys football and car mechanics. Even if both say they are ‘in the wrong body’ and ‘feel like a girl’

I think that's underestimating the skills of the assessing team. They get all shapes & sizes & variations comng through the doors just as with adults. And would it not be the very gender stereotyping we all hate if they did so?

However part of the transition process before assessment for medical treatment can be bringing a diary of thoughts & feelings of the path since starting to socially transition & learning to be more comfortable dressed in whatever style suits you as the new persona.
But pysches are not daft they know when someone is playing the part or genuinely trans. it would be very difficult for a child to keep up a pretense for years I would think.

[DoryNow]

Prawn Archery I have no probem with the basis of your agenda, and it's great to ensure info is out there for all. That is what MN is for.

What I DO have an issue with is your style of delivery, being overly insistant thet YOU are right and others wrong, claiming you are not being personal but we trans mums DO take it personally, we have had a lot of the sort of belligerent questioning seen upthread, and it. never.stops.

You claim MN is the only forum that allows your discussions, well how about others are allowed to talk about the trans kids side? Every single time there is a trans thread on any board you all come bundling in demanding posters ask very personal questions.

(You even said you are lucky we've been quite gentle with you, so that shows there is a concerted thread invasion)

Of course you are now saying I've not been posting here because I want to criticise you or your choices

Hahahaha forgive me if I spit my tea out.

You have accused trans parents of "sterilising children"
You have accused us of stuffing our children full of hormones
You have said you are campaiging to highlight this issue as you did with FGM (thereby comparing the two situations as similarly abusive & mutilating)

Because I can stand up for myself a little better now I can handle this.
But this about the 3rd or 4th time over the years I have been confronted by you on a trans thread & it is well known by many that a sensible discussion cannot take place without it deteriorating into a bun fight.

I would have more repsect for you if you would maybe signpost others to your groups , rather than domineering the thread , just for once.

MN has now got a repuation for being transphobic sadly which I know the majority of posters aren't ( and at heart I don't believe you are) I just wish there would be as much support for us as there are seems to be for you in being allowed a safe space.

I have found MN to be a wonderfully supportive place for other matters & it is still for many of us, full of hilarious, knowlegeable supportive women. (and men !) But your strident, overbearing tone on this subject (trans children ) is just too much & it's putting people off joining or staying which I think is very sad.

[Prawnofthepatriarchy]

That's a fascinating document, busyboysmum. Started, but it's going to take a bit of reading, especially on a phone.

[littledinaco]

The treatments being given to children and young people with gender dysphoria would be brutal enough if it could be guaranteed that all of them are in fact transgender. But the evidence suggests that many are not. I appreciate that you and your DC are entirely sure of your decisions. However sterilizing other children for a condition they may well not even have seems truly appalling.

I think this is what is so frightening. Yes, there are side affects to most treatments/medications but in any other medical situation, you know the person has the condition. In this situation the side affects and long term irreversible impact seems far worse than most medical interventions yet the treatment is given when there is actually a good chance it will resolve itself on it’s own.

Also, does OP or anyone else know if when the trans person is being assessed by psychologists, clinicians, etc they take into account the way their person dresses, has their hair and what their hobbies/interests are? I’m just wondering if a boy who goes in wearing make up, long hair and a dress and saying they enjoy painting nails and playing netball is more likely to be approved for treatment than a boy who goes in wearing jeans, has short hair and enjoys football and car mechanics. Even if both say they are ‘in the wrong body’ and ‘feel like a girl’.