I am the mother of a trans child ...AMA

[DoryNow]

But no bun fights please, I am not a trans activist.

Good oh hope that helps!

This thread is starting to leave a nasty taste in my mouth. Feels like a party recruitment drive.

But who is to say I am wrong and you are right? Why can it not be two sides of a difficult situation with opposing views? If you want to inform people, bring evidence to the table, offer alternative thoughts in a positve calm manner.

That's fair enough, Dory, and that's what I in fact did.

There are so many adults who say they would have been a ‘trans teenager’ if they were a teen now. My cousin says she ‘felt like a boy’ and ‘in the wrong body’ etc until mid 20s, so a long time, way beyond what anyone would say a phase. She says if she was a teen now, she would probably be trans/on hormones and not have the opportunity to have her DC.
Now she is happy that she is a woman and has zero desire to be a man (she literally dressed, presented and said she was a boy for YEARS-maybe 15 years and even as a young child she liked ‘boys’ activities, etc) - so I’m guessing if she was a teen now any therapy,etc would say she is ‘definitely trans’ and give her the go-ahead for treatment.

but by denying it you are pushing them down a spiral of self loathing and potential depression I’ve spoken to my cousin in length and she’s seen the thread. She says for her (and probably lots of others but obviously not everyone) this is so untrue. She says being accepted she could dress how she wanted etc but being told that it wasn’t possible to change sex was the best approach for her (again not for everyone). She says she thinks if she would have been told she could be a boy, she probably would have jumped at the chance to take hormones but then have ended up in a bad way when she eventually found out all the hormones, surgery etc in the world wouldn’t turn her male.

How does anyone tell who will ‘grow out of it’ even if it’s years and years later? What about those who get put on hormones who may have ‘grown out of it’ and ended up perfectly happy that they were born a boy/girl?
It’s actually really frightening but I’m not sure what you can do if your child wants to go down this route once they are legally old enough to do this themselves.

Just curios OP whether you discussed with your DC that there are lots of people who ‘grow out of it’ in their 20s and if so, what your DC reaction was? Did he want to wait and see if he was one of the ones that did get much older and decide he was actually content with being a woman after all even though he could’t feel further from it at the moment? Not a criticism at all, it must be incredibly difficult

Orchid

Hate to disappoint you but I belong to no party so feel free to leave the thread if its upsetting you - peace & love.

Have a good rest of the weekend.

Ooooh! You're brave Dory

I guess I won't be doing an AMA Anytime soon.

I know what you mean, OrchidInTheSun.

littledinaco

And I would say to your cousin that her parents obviously did exactly the right thing FOR HER, by listening and acknowledging her concerns and playing it as they saw fit for THEIR child, and they are to be congratulated. That is something I have acknowledged upthread.
It is a very personal thing, and as you say not for everybody.

However I would stress again, there is a long road to transition and it is not a quick process, the pysche evaluations are very thorough, and if there are any indications (don't ask me what, they have the years of training not I! ) that there is not 100% conviction that the child is ready to transition on the specialists part they don't.

But you don't need to go down the trans path initially to support a child that is unhappy, just acknowledging they ARE unhappy & listening to why is a start & makes a HUGE difference.

The thing is all our children are wonderfully different and some mature earlier than others, some later. Some will want kids some won't, some may not be able to but desperatley want to & they will find parenthood a different way fostering,adoption etc. Who knows where they will be in 15 / 20 years time & what life will have thrown in their path.

But life is too sort to be unhappy, and my boy was quietly, undramatically, deep down unhappy. Life restrictingly unhappy, life limitingly unhappy (not in the suicidal sense, he always had support to prevent the spiral getting quite that low) and it came over time and again to the assesors.

He said himself he could not cope with the thought of feeling the way he did for 15-20 years just to see whether he would grow out of it & I could not in all conscience force him to do so.

He may have done, but what if he didn't? I would be, in theory condeming him to mental torture for 15-20 years for nothing, all that time wasted.
In practice I would have lost him from my life as he would have been estranged at 18 so that he could find his own way, & his sister too as she is his biggest most vocal supporter.

I would then have no chance of having any say in his life or any influence.

I chose to support him unconditionally, with all my love. It does not mean I wanted it or agreed with it (dear god who would?) but, by the time he got to clinic he was 18 and I could not stop him even if I really tried.

At 18 he is deemed old enough to get married, go to war, vote and many other life changing things.

So contrary to what many on here seem to think, it was not a path I chose to go down, but I am glad I was there to ensure my child got the best chance to be happy and the best care we could access via the NHS.

And excrutiatingly painful as each step was (for me) , seeing the happiness on his cheeky face come back, seeing him get his self confidence back, seeing him blossom into his new self and have happy healthy relationships with his friends and gradually all the family helped me realise it WAS the right thing to do for him, and that helped allay my fears and guilt a little. Of course I worry about his future and how things will pan out re children /relationships etc but that's not down to me to sort out now. He know the risks & options & I will be supporting him in keeping healthy moving forward getting regular check ups etc

Ooh sorry that turned out to be another ramble- apologies but thanks for the questions!

Hello GerdalovesLili Have we met?

Not brave at all actually, some would say foolhardy, but hey-ho

Amazing what the odd glass of or can do on a Satuday night.

Did your dh manage to support your ds as well as both yourself and your dd have?

Thank you for answering I agree that you had no other option as your DC would have gone ahead anyway so he would have done it with or without your support.
I think if my cousin was a teen now her parents would probably have been ‘forced’ to do the same as she would have been on the Internet, looking up hormones, chest binders, etc and likely gone down an irreversible path.

It’s hard as the human brain doesn’t mature until into your 20s and at 18 people aren’t known to make the best decisions! I know that trying to say to a desperately unhappy 18 year old that they need to wait 5 years for something they long for would be near impossible.

At the same time, it is frightening that they may cause fertility and other life long issues to themselves by making such a massive decision. Although, I don’t know what the answer is. It just seems a huge gamble that I’m not sure many 18 year olds (even with all the physcotherapy, etc that goes with it) are actually capable of making.

I think it’s hard as I grew up with my cousin insisting she was a boy and now see her a happy woman with children and it is scary that she wouldn’t be in that position if she had been born later than she was. Although she’s far from the only one with a similar story, I appreciate it’s different for everyone.

You sound like a lovely mum and I wish your family the best of luck on your journey.

My God. I was hugely, life limitingly, persistently unhappy as a teenager
I self-harmed very seriously indeed, developed eating disorders, ended up hospitalised, and nearly ended my own life more than once.

I can't even bear to imagine if I'd had the option to destroy my body and my fertility permanently, with the approval and support of my parents and medical professionals.

My kids are my world now. And I've finally accepted being a woman, as a result of having them. Scary, scary stuff.

RazzleDazzle short answer bc of identifying features but exDH wa a complete twat about it all initially & there was a period of estrangement but now he is back in the kids life again albeit on a different footing. His behaviour confirmed to us all why he is my Ex [grin

Litledinaco Thanks. He is philisophical about fatherhood in the future, he wants kids but is prepared to adopt. He may meet a woman (or man) with children already. As we all know you don't have to be a sperm donor to be a Dad & many wonderful mums don't give birth to their own child. We shall see.

I can't even bear to imagine if I'd had the option to destroy my body and my fertility permanently, with the approval and support of my parents and medical professionals.

Gorgon your situation was clearly different to my sons then & I'm so pleased you recovered and are so happy now, genuinely.

However please don't think for a minute that I approved or wanted this to happen, if you read my reply to littledinaco, I have made the best of a terrible situation I was propelled into and as it turns out we are all doing fine thanks.

Yes, many amazing mums and dads aren’t biological parents. I’m just not sure 18 is the best age to make such a decision. It’s basically impossible when you’re that age to imaging being in your 30s desperate for a child, although I understand some people do decide at 18 they don’t want DC or don’t want biological DC and stick to that decision. And I know DC aren’t the be all and end all to a happy life. Just seems the system is somehow wrong that 18 year olds (and younger) are actually able to destroy their fertility like this. It must be such a hard and heartbreaking position for you to be in as a parent.

I’m wondering whether normalising the feeling of wanting to be a boy and ‘trapped in the wrong body’ etc but then getting older and feeling content with being a woman would help kids who are struggling with this.

So knowing that lots of people go through this but come out the other side fine with no intervention.

It doesn’t seem to be talked about much. I’m wondering if there are any statistics in terms of what percentage of girls feel like a boy but change their minds without any intervention and what’s the average age for feeling content as a woman and no longer having the desire to be a man.

Yes they are the sort of statistics that I think will be collated over the coming years & hopefully will give more clarity for future treatments (or none treatment)

It will also be interesting to see the outcomes of those that do transition early and therefore don't have the lifetime of GD & associated mental health issues that many adult trans people do have.

I genuinely hope you and your child are happy now and in the future. As a parent myself I have never had to deal with this issue from one of my children. Although I do have a child with trans friends. Ive taught them the difference between sex and gender, they understand that gender is a code word for personality and that biological sex, is binary, with the odd abnormality of intersex, and biology determines the way we are treated and expected to behave. They know my views. They also know to treat their trans friend with respect, they are going through a difficult time and deserve support and understanding as we are all human beings. Again, I wish you both well

Thanks Allycat - all the best to you & yours too.

I feel that there should be a minimum time (say three years) and a minimum number of therapy sessions before anyone can have any medical treatment (including puberty blockers until we know more about side effects) for being trans. It sounds as if your child had that but others clearly don't. How would you feel about that OP?

It horrifies me how little parents and children are being told about the effects of puberty blockers and cross sex hormones.

I'd guess parents assume doctors know what they're doing and that the safety of what's being prescribed is a given. But they're quite, quite wrong

The phenomenon of child transition is so new that the data just isn't there. The current generation is essentially being treated like lab rats - or canaries in a coal mine.

Here's a detailed article on what's known about the long term effects of testosterone on young females by an American doctor who's looked into the facts. She writes:

What are the risks of giving testosterone to a female for a lifetime?

Surely, those who advocate for the medical interventions known as “transitioning” must have a risk-benefit analysis available for parents and patients, before committing young people to a lifetime of pharmaceutical (and potentially surgical) treatment for a poorly defined psychiatric condition?

As a physician who has sworn to do no harm, that’s what I would have assumed.

As it turns out, the WPATH-inspired standard of care, adopted by the US Endocrine Society, has pushed boldly ahead where no medical society has gone before, promoting radical, irreversible body modifications for adolescents using powerful, off-label hormone regimens in the absence of any longterm data about safety.

The article reveals an almost unbelievably casual lack of concern by gender doctors for the well being and long term health of girls. It's far worse in the USA than here, but testosterone isn't safe for girls wherever it's prescribed.

The site the article appears in, 4th Wave Now, is a useful support network for anyone who isn't on board with the trans agenda, whether or not you're a parent.

I think each case is individual Mip & when would the 3 years start?

In very young children in the UK medical transition doesn’t start till over that time anyway, if on the NHS. During that time counselling can take place & the child socially transitioning can relieve a child’s anxiety hugely I have been told. The long period also allows the child and parent to assess with their doctors if it IS “just a phase”. ( in which case hoorah!)

There will be a time sensitivity for starting “blockers” as it is crucial to get the right time before puberty starts. The Tavi (as I understand from young friends going through their doors) monitors many blood levels to ensure they start as late as possible. Sorry to not be more specific but not an endocrinologist.! I know they also do bone scans & physical measurements to monitor growth.

The problem I have is with some (not all) private specialists taking over this role & if they are regulated adequately by the Medical Assoc etc.

I totally understand families seeking a speedier option & if they can pay for it, at least it eases the NHS waiting lists I guess. However I would want to be reassured they were following national protocols and doing the same amount of monitoring before starting treatment.

This is why the US has such problems with some “specialists” as they way their health system works it is more money orientated.

I agree there should be a wait as long as possible & counselling (which is where the NHS falls down at times) but it would be difficult to standardise because of the individual requirements.

It is a minefield for any of us & even in the short time since DS started down that path, financial constraints have increased greatly.

Prawn You are quite right there has historically been a lack of data to prove or disprove risks and side effects.

However with the larger studies being done in countries like the US, Canada & Australia data is improving all the time.

At every stage of DS transition we were told all the available data, with the pros & cons.

Like any medical treatment they are legally obliged to lay out all the risks even the minuscule ones. Then as with any treatment it is up to the patient to weigh up if they personally feel it is worth it.

Of course testosterone isn’t “safe” for girls it is a male hormone and one of the side effects is it can shrivel the ovaries irreversibly. ( in some it doesn’t)
It can also slightly increase the risk of ovarian & /or uterine cancers. ( but it might not)

But if you are transitioning F>M you accept those terms, you watch your health and in time you have a total hysterectomy to reduce risk & regular checks.

Hard to accept from the outside & still is for me but to say ALL doctors are not giving their patients the full picture is not correct in my experience.

Any mother going into this with her child will have been trawling the medical journals & devoured anything they can find before they get to see the medics in addition to what they are told by the specialists.

As part of the process there is much discussion about treatments & certainly at the Tavi appointments with Nurse Practitioners who often have a bit more time to really go through things with them. At the adult clinics you are assessed by an endocrinologist & two consultants before being signed off for hormones & they liaise closely with your GP to ensure blood testing is done frequently to ensure the lowest possible dozen of hormones is given to achieve the therapeutic level.

Bottom line is while you Gender Crit ilks are quite right to raise concerns if it bothers you, it is not your business to lecture families who have gone or are going through this process.

By all means Flag up & discuss concerns with those who are seeking help if they ask. ( maybe start your own thread on the Feminist board as a counterpoint? might be useful )

But there comes a point where families have weighed up all the info even if it is limited, and they know their own child it is then up to them to move forward as theysee fit.

DoryNow, you say: By all means Flag up & discuss concerns with those who are seeking help if they ask. ( maybe start your own thread on the Feminist board as a counterpoint? might be useful )

But there comes a point where families have weighed up all the info even if it is limited, and they know their own child it is then up to them to move forward as they see fit.

DoryNow do you not see that this thread is exactly where parents who may currently be - or may find themselves - facing these issues need that counterpoint information?

You have expressed your views on puberty blockers and other issues on this thread and promoted yourself as someone with specialist knowledge.

However I consider your claims inaccurate and misleading. This is an appropriate place to say so. I have not attacked you, just provided links to support my position.

Your comments about testosterone:

You are quite right there has historically been a lack of data to prove or disprove risks and side effects.

However with the larger studies being done in countries like the US, Canada & Australia data is improving all the time.

Don't address the problem. Breadth of data (number of patients) is no substitute for longitudinal data (how long for). There literally is no evidence of what testosterone is likely to do to women over time. A girl these days who starts testosterone at 20 may well be taking it for many decades and presumably neither she nor her parents is being told just how little is known. If they were, parents would likely be far more resistant to their children being used essentially as guinea pigs.

There are already frequent threads on the Feminism boards discussing child transition from various angles. We often hear from parents of children who identify as transgender and who find feminism makes sense of it to them. We also have resource lists, including links to data to help parents navigate the bullshit trans apologists (including Mermaids) are feeding them.

The treatments being given to children and young people with gender dysphoria would be brutal enough if it could be guaranteed that all of them are in fact transgender. But the evidence suggests that many are not. I appreciate that you and your DC are entirely sure of your decisions. However sterilizing other children for a condition they may well not even have seems truly appalling.

I have a professional interest in medical history. I predict this will be the worst scandal in living memory. We will look back on this as WTAF.

I was going to go through you post answering your concerns point by point, but I have better things to do on a Sunday evening.

I have a professional interest too,(let's not play Top Trumps eh?) but also a humane one in believing that each child should be treated individually & given the best care they need after consultation with the professionals who know them best at that moment with the best care available at that time

I am fed up with the scaremongering & cruel accusations made on here thinly disguised as concerns for trans children, and the insulting attitude that we poor misguded parents are too naive, or too thick to know or find out what the best options are for OUR children, condeming them to a life of misery when it all goes wrong. Guess what for many already it hasn't.

We are NOT "sterilising our children" some of them are recommended for early treatment that MAY cause fertility, but it may not .

When you take testosterone you can lose your some of your female functions, that is the whole point. It is clearly explained. Sterility is a side effect.

ANY drugs or treatment offered has to be clearly explained by medics these days & full disclosure of any data no matter how little, so it can be weighed up against risk and predicted outcomes. We had everything explained to us in minute detail, including the searingly honest confession that they could not predict the long term outcomes but so far they were happy with the results.

Offer alternative views by all means but stop telling us that the possible outcomes can outweigh the obvious benefits in a happier and healthier child.

Did it ever occur to you that this over anxious concern for the state of other peoples kids genitals and fertility is becoming nothing short of perverse & extremely bizarre? Thanks for the concern but you sort your own kids out & leave me to sort mine.

You think that we will look back & think WTF?

Maybe we'll look back & think WTF were they making so much fuss about, look at all these happy well adjusted young trans people.

We'll see.

Good night & have a good week ahead.