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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #68

279 replies

nauticant · 04/10/2026 13:02

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims were of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claimed to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and after a prolonged process judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025. That judgment is being appealed and an appeal hearing is expected to take place in 2027.

A second Employment Tribunal, Sandie Peggie vs Royal College of Nursing, has just been heard. The hearing started on Wednesday 23 September 2026 and ended on Thursday 1 October 2026. It is possible that a decision will be handed down before Christmas of this year.

Additional legal claims have been raised. Sandie Peggie is taking action against three senior managers who were witnesses in the first Employment Tribunal - Dr Kate Searle, Dr Maggie Currer and Esther Davidson, against Carol Potter, the chief executive of NHS Fife, for victimisation, against NHS Fife for discrimination, and against its director of people and culture David Miller for harassment. In addition, Sandie Peggie is being investigated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council over fitness to practice.

The past proceedings were live tweeted by www.x.com/tribunaltweets. Tribunal Tweets are likely to be providing coverage in future proceedings. There's additional information on Tribunal Tweets' substack: www.tribunaltweets.substack.com/.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 61: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

Thread 62: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5562302-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-62 3 August 2026 to 24 September 2026

Thread 63: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5581909-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-63 24 September 2026 to 27 September 2026

Thread 64: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583133-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-64 27 September 2026 to 29 September 2026

Thread 65: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583663-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-65 29 September 2026 to 30 September 2026

Thread 66: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5584074-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-66 30 September 2026 to 1 October 2026

Thread 67: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5584523-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-67 1 October 2026 to ????

OP posts:
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14
NotAtMyAge · 06/10/2026 12:54

Cailleach1 · 06/10/2026 12:52

I recall a priest, in Westerham I think. He had been a priest, and had left the Catholic Church because of the celibacy rule. He decamped to the Church of England, and married.

Then when the CofE decided to allow women priests, he didn’t like that, and decamped back to the RC church , and was welcomed as a married priest.

Talk about having your cake and eating it.

BezMark · 06/10/2026 12:59

CohensDiamondTeeth · 06/10/2026 12:21

You didn't miss anything important at all I don't think, maybe one of the more recent times or courier articles?

Edited

I keep meaning to post to the effect that we Fifers have always called it 'the Courier' rather than the Dundee Courier (The Dundee Courier and Advertiser as was when I was a paper loddie in the 80s). So it was funny to see someone (at last) call it by the normal name.

Igmum · 06/10/2026 13:01

Tbf the Catholic Church only introduced celibacy for priests in the Middle Ages because so many left church lands to their children in their wills. It was a pragmatic decision rather than a spiritual one.

PastySausageStew · 06/10/2026 13:01

Our old catholic priest was a widower with grandkids, which I think made him a better priest. Certainly better at dealing with kids at school and mass than the other priest who coild barely hide his distaste.

WearyAuldWumman · 06/10/2026 13:06

BezMark · 06/10/2026 12:59

I keep meaning to post to the effect that we Fifers have always called it 'the Courier' rather than the Dundee Courier (The Dundee Courier and Advertiser as was when I was a paper loddie in the 80s). So it was funny to see someone (at last) call it by the normal name.

"Aye. Ma name's no in The Courier, so A'm no deid yet."

NowSober · 06/10/2026 13:19

Peregrina · 06/10/2026 12:20

CofE priests who defect to the Catholic priesthood aren't bound by a vow of celibacy so get to keep their wives.

That seems very unfair on committed Catholic priests. I recollect that Bruce Kent left the priesthood when he wanted to get married.

I may have inadvertently overstated the position of former CofE priests celibacy-wise as they don't get a free pass for sexual relations. If they have a wife they get to keep her but they aren't allowed to get married after joining the Catholic priesthood or indulge in relations outside of marriage.

Londonmummy66 · 06/10/2026 13:22

I think we should be grateful to the interruptatron for triggering all the detailed exposition of the law from @prh47bridge.

And now respond to any further nonsense with pictures of pets (or the unicorn used to police previous threads).

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 06/10/2026 13:22

Catchup post:

Result for this tribunal: no date given IIRC, but the judge said she intended to be quick. So hopefully before xmas.

Appeal date: middle of 2027?

Sourdough mother: if frozen, shouldn't be dead. May take a week or so of feeding to revive it.

@Igmum, interesting book collection.

Igmum · 06/10/2026 13:32

@BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn those are part of the work books, play books elsewhere (must recheck that photo and see which ones you saw...)

ThreeWordHarpy · 06/10/2026 14:20

Hello all, checking in - I only skim read the last thread and a half and didn’t realise that the hearing was finished! Thank you to the knowledgeable legal contributors in the thread - I always learn something from them. I’ll be back when there’s some SP related news. In the meantime I’ll leave this which I get referred to when I get too far down the Internet rabbit hole.

Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #68
Tears0fTheMushroom · 06/10/2026 14:40

Londonmummy66 · 06/10/2026 13:22

I think we should be grateful to the interruptatron for triggering all the detailed exposition of the law from @prh47bridge.

And now respond to any further nonsense with pictures of pets (or the unicorn used to police previous threads).

I can't imagine they have anything more to say anyway

Their final post on the previous thread effectively brought their argument full circle. Apparently you CAN have a mixed sex service that includes transwomen labelled simply "women" because (as some people believe) transwomen ARE women.
QED.
40 odd pages of arguing over 2 threads to get to that conclusion. That was their whole point all along.
Here is a picture of Mushroomcat having a laugh at all this nonsense

Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #68
PastySausageStew · 06/10/2026 14:42

I can't imagine they have anything more to say anyway

FGS don't jinx it Grin

Peregrina · 06/10/2026 14:49

This I recall was the Telegraph's heading when the judgement was announced:
https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1912645314105704535?lang=en

Now nowhere in the judgement does it actually say that, but it is the logical conclusion.

The pity for me is that I have to read a right wing paper to read some sense on the issue. I was brought up on The Guardian and that is a complete waste of time, (and on science issues generally.)

The Telegraph (@Telegraph) on X

The front page of today's Daily Telegraph: 'Trans women are not women'

https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1912645314105704535?lang=en

Tears0fTheMushroom · 06/10/2026 14:50

PastySausageStew · 06/10/2026 14:42

I can't imagine they have anything more to say anyway

FGS don't jinx it Grin

Right right sorry. 😳

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/10/2026 15:06

Peregrina · 06/10/2026 14:49

This I recall was the Telegraph's heading when the judgement was announced:
https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1912645314105704535?lang=en

Now nowhere in the judgement does it actually say that, but it is the logical conclusion.

The pity for me is that I have to read a right wing paper to read some sense on the issue. I was brought up on The Guardian and that is a complete waste of time, (and on science issues generally.)

I love that picture so much. Joyous.

Veilsofmorning · 06/10/2026 15:21

DeanElderberry · 06/10/2026 11:12

gingerbread yes please thank you kindly

As requested:

Veilsofmorning · 06/10/2026 15:24

Photo will appear soon, I hope. Despite using cups as a measure, this is not a US recipe- a real Scottish recipe, Mum from Edinburgh- just use a real cup, recipe is fairly forgiving

DeanElderberry · 06/10/2026 15:50

No photo yet, continuing to hope.

Veilsofmorning · 06/10/2026 16:01

Not sure what happened to photo so here’s the recipe - apologies for using 3 posts!
Isle of Rhum Gingerbread (sorry, pre-decimal)
6oz marg; 5oz soft brown sugar; 1/2 cup (8 oz) black treacle; ditto golden syrup; 1 cup milk; 1teaspoon each of ground ginger; ground cloves; cinnamon & bicarbonate of soda.A little hot water; 12 oz plain flour; 1 or 2 eggs.
in a pan, place marg, sugar, treacle, syrup & spices. Set on gentle heat until warm. Add milk. Pour into a bowl and add beaten eggs and bicarbonate that has been dissolved in hot water. Lastly, add flour and beat well. The mixture will be runny. Add walnuts or preserved ginger if desired.
Medium oven 325 Fahrenheit (mark 3 / 180 C) for 1 and half hours but check before end. If making 2 loaves the time is about 50 mins but again check near end.

Tallisker · 06/10/2026 16:12

Cor that sounds yum. Could butter be used instead of marg? And would it be baked in a loaf tin - what size? My DH loves ginger things so he’d really like this.

DeanElderberry · 06/10/2026 16:22

Thank you, that looks lovely.

WaterThyme · 06/10/2026 16:24

Looks delicious, thank you @Veilsofmorning
Is it one that gets better after a few days?

Veilsofmorning · 06/10/2026 16:25

Tallisker · 06/10/2026 16:12

Cor that sounds yum. Could butter be used instead of marg? And would it be baked in a loaf tin - what size? My DH loves ginger things so he’d really like this.

It is lovely- not sure about butter instead of marg, but probably, though I usually put the butter (thick slabs and marmalade has been known) onto slices once cooked:)
Yes, small loaf tins work well - we have always used 2x loaf tins (lined with greaseproof) - not good with sizes but not the large ones.
Makes the whole house smell wonderful.

impossibletoday · 06/10/2026 16:34

.

Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #68
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